Native American Sword (Pawnee/Otoe)

BAW · 31st March 2020, 10:23 PM

I have run out of facts on the subject, but ParikiMarks original posting solicited "thoughts", of which I have an abundance. These are my personal opinions, neither provable nor unprovable, and if others are not offended by my sharing them, I for my part, promise not to be offended if no one agrees with me.
Mention was made of the 1832 swords' worthlessness in combat, and it probably would have been for defending a battery against saber-swinging horsemen or a company of infantry armed with bayonets, but would probably be very useful in the disorganized melee of single combats practiced by the Kansas Jayhawkers, who probably looked upon them as a sort of super-Bowie knife. I have no doubt that American Plains Indians looked on them the same way. Contrary to the Hollywood legend, American Indians did most of their fighting against other Indians. The average length of the Plains Indian stone-headed war clubs in my collection is 23 inches. I imagine that an Indian would find a 25 inch sword a suitable weapon for an encounter with an opponent armed with a stone club. As for Indians considering a sword to be a "symbol of status", I have no doubt that ownership of a sword conferred status in the same way that the ownership of a repeating rifle did, but it does not necessarily follow that the owner considered either sword or rifle as anything other than an efficient weapon for practical use.
I am also not sure that the swords found at Mission San Diego de Alcala were intended to be "re-purposed." They were the same size as some of the shorter examples of the espada ancha traditionally carried fixed to the saddle by the native Californios, and were a great deal more decorative. Had he been successful in getting out the gate with them, the thief probably would have found a ready market..

Gavin Nugent · 11th October 2020, 10:10 PM

Adding this for visual references from a 2006 sale.

By appearances they were coveted weapons.

Gavin

Jim McDougall · 12th October 2020, 04:49 AM

They were very much weapons of status and prestige, as well as symbolic of authority and power.
Colin Taylor's works note various cases of the sword in American Indian culture and they are sometimes seen in pictographs and drawings. Apparently a good number of British M1796 light cavalry sabers came into America probably after 1830s. One trading post , the Bordeaux near Chadron, Nebraska seems to have acquired a good number of these and traded to various tribes.
The Yankton Sioux chief To-ka-cou had one which represented his power and his tribe entirely recognized this. The Crow also had a red painted example representing supernatural power.

While not used in the traditional sense, as a weapon, they were considered profoundly in the act of 'counting coup' on the battlefield, probably with recognition of these as in use by the 'long knives' (American cavalry).

11th October 2020, 10:10 PM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Adding this for visual references from a 2006 sale. By appearances they were coveted weapons. Gavin Attached Images

31st March 2020, 10:23 PM	#1
BAW Member Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 6	I have run out of facts on the subject, but ParikiMarks original posting solicited "thoughts", of which I have an abundance. These are my personal opinions, neither provable nor unprovable, and if others are not offended by my sharing them, I for my part, promise not to be offended if no one agrees with me. Mention was made of the 1832 swords' worthlessness in combat, and it probably would have been for defending a battery against saber-swinging horsemen or a company of infantry armed with bayonets, but would probably be very useful in the disorganized melee of single combats practiced by the Kansas Jayhawkers, who probably looked upon them as a sort of super-Bowie knife. I have no doubt that American Plains Indians looked on them the same way. Contrary to the Hollywood legend, American Indians did most of their fighting against other Indians. The average length of the Plains Indian stone-headed war clubs in my collection is 23 inches. I imagine that an Indian would find a 25 inch sword a suitable weapon for an encounter with an opponent armed with a stone club. As for Indians considering a sword to be a "symbol of status", I have no doubt that ownership of a sword conferred status in the same way that the ownership of a repeating rifle did, but it does not necessarily follow that the owner considered either sword or rifle as anything other than an efficient weapon for practical use. I am also not sure that the swords found at Mission San Diego de Alcala were intended to be "re-purposed." They were the same size as some of the shorter examples of the espada ancha traditionally carried fixed to the saddle by the native Californios, and were a great deal more decorative. Had he been successful in getting out the gate with them, the thief probably would have found a ready market..

12th October 2020, 04:49 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	They were very much weapons of status and prestige, as well as symbolic of authority and power. Colin Taylor's works note various cases of the sword in American Indian culture and they are sometimes seen in pictographs and drawings. Apparently a good number of British M1796 light cavalry sabers came into America probably after 1830s. One trading post , the Bordeaux near Chadron, Nebraska seems to have acquired a good number of these and traded to various tribes. The Yankton Sioux chief To-ka-cou had one which represented his power and his tribe entirely recognized this. The Crow also had a red painted example representing supernatural power. While not used in the traditional sense, as a weapon, they were considered profoundly in the act of 'counting coup' on the battlefield, probably with recognition of these as in use by the 'long knives' (American cavalry).