Stiletto for comments ... please

[alex8765]

Hi Fernando,
You can download Dean Bashford's catalog for free, from Metropolitan Museum of Art site:

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/metpub...unting_Swords#

[fernando]

Originally Posted by alex8765

Hi Fernando,
You can download Dean Bashford's catalog for free, from Metropolitan Museum of Art site:

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/metpub...unting_Swords#

I have downloaded it half hour ago .
Thank you for the hint, anyhow .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by alex8765

Hi Fernando,
You can download Dean Bashford's catalog for free, from Metropolitan Museum of Art site:

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/metpub...unting_Swords#

Alex, I would like to thank you for sharing this most valuable tip!!! I would not have realized that was possible, and honestly was not aware of this title.
I very much value all information I can find on markings, and cannot believe I missed this one!!!

This thread has been profoundly helpful on this topic, in addition to great insight into these fascinating stiletto daggers. The paper that Philip mentioned earlier in the 'gunners daggers' has always been a sort of mainstay on these, and other resources typically mention them but only in a cursory description. Mforde, thank you for the heads up on that other Italian publication as well.

Thank you for opening this thread and these examples Fernando.

[alex8765]

Jim, You are welcome! Glad that I can help.

There is another good book that you can download from MET's site. It called: "Catalogue of European Court Swords and Hunting Swords".

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/metpub...Hunting_Swords

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Thank you for opening this thread and these examples Fernando...

There is nothing to thank for, Jim. It is always a pleasure to show my pieces and be contemplated with members comments; favorable or not, as it fits.

[Jim McDougall]

Alex, I caught that one as well when pulling up the site, absolutely excellent sources, again thank you.

Fernando, I know its not necessary, but wanted to express my appreciation. The best thing here is that one never stops learning, even 'novices' like me who have been in the game most of my life (at 74 thats a lot of time!).
Its the joy of learning FROM these weapons everyone shares that is the magic.

[fernando]

I have been digging into the mystique that involves this type of daggers, namely their name, their typology and their purpose.
Concerning their name, i am amazed to have found one more; stiletto, fusetto, centoventi ... and now regola; the last two obviously referring to the ‘scales’ marked between notches in the blade.
As typology (if i may call it so) it appears to descend from the famous misericordia.
The purpose; starting by their sharp point, we may select one or all of three uses, cleaning the cannon touch hole, piercing the gunpowder bags and plug the touch hole in case of retreat in battle.
And at last, the more controversial ; marked from 1 to 120 (apparently always 1-3-6-9-12-14-16-20-30-40-60-90-100-120), is often being conotated with the calibres measurement, probably as it looks like the immediate simple inferrement. But looking at assumptions made by those considered experts in the matter, this is rather improbable according to some and even stated as being something else by others.

From Daghe & Coltelli “Apparati per la tavola e la guerra nel Rinascimento europeo”
… other versions of the same dagger, reported notches on the blade ("stiletto centoventi") and it was said that it was also an instrument used by gunners to measure the calibres of the guns; but this interpretation, contested by many experts, for the disparity of the measurements and the arrangement of the same on the blade, left space also to another legend: being a weapon easily concealable and for this very often prohibited, that the excuse of professional use could be a valid reason for possession.

Or ...

From “Quaderni Friulani di Archeologia VII/1997 by FABRIZIO BRESSAN”
The shape of dagger is recognised in fusetto or centoventi, the style at one's disposal to the Veneti gunners used approximately from the middle of the XVII century to the whole Seven hundred; the weapon is distinguished for one characteristic staircase, in notched numbers from 1 to 120 (why the name) that, carved on one of the faces of blade they were representing a reminder of calibres (to note, not their "measure") used by artilleries of the then Serene Highness.


Having that said, and considering that, at the period, such concealable daggers were highly prohibited to carry around, as per abundant published material, we could gather that, the markings on the blade, were only a subterfuge to illude the law, by giving them a professional attribution; their actual utility not being the issue.

[batjka]

Pardon my ignorance, but where can I find some documentation that daggers were prohibited in Venice? My understanding is that up until early 18th century, swords and daggers could be openly carried by city state citizens.

For example, Cosimo Medici was described as "wearing a coat of mail under his jerkin, a sword and a dagger hanging from his belt, and with numerous small stiletti, with very sharp points, almost as fine as needles, stuck into the lining of his scabbard as into a needdle-case".

[fernando]

Originally Posted by batjka

Pardon my ignorance, but where can I find some documentation that daggers were prohibited in Venice? My understanding is that up until early 18th century, swords and daggers could be openly carried by city state citizens...

Maybe trying harder some references may be found ... just kidding .
For all we know, the prohibition of carrying a determined weapon, for its special specifity, is implicitely excluded from the right to carry weapons in general. We could perhaps take Spanish navajas, crossbows, or (cup hilted) swords with off mark blades, for pertinent examples...

Originally Posted by batjka

...For example, Cosimo Medici was described as "wearing a coat of mail under his jerkin, a sword and a dagger hanging from his belt, and with numerous small stiletti, with very sharp points, almost as fine as needles, stuck into the lining of his scabbard as into a needdle-case".

A member from the previledged Medici family is hardly an example ; and the centoventi as such, appeared almost four centuries after he has gone to heaven. Maybe the prohibition of such concealable weapon was result of flourishing Cosimo's imitators; this assuming that, his fixation for wandering around with such arsenal, was a fact.

... And by the way; how is your Italian?
From Guida del raccoglitore e dell'amatore di Armi Antiche - 1900

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