Unique and Impressive Two Handed Sword

[NeilUK]

I have only just seen this post and agree with the comments on the engraving and chiseling. However I am totally amazed by the style of the hilt - grip, pommel and crossguard. In the course of researching my book I have examined dozens of 2-handed swords in the flesh, so to speak, and hundreds more in photos and have seen nothing like this. The grip is too long proportionally and the midpoint baluster is too fanciful. The pommel and crossguard are just weird even if the actual workmanship is good. For its length as a parade sword it is too light in weight. My opinion is that it is an elaborate attempt to create a 17th century 2-hander, well constructed but horribly inaccurate unless it was intended to be a fantasy sword. Probably 19th century.
Neil

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by NeilUK

Probably 19th century.
Neil

thank you

[CSinTX]

Thanks for the additional thoughts!

To me, it is not fair to dismiss an item because it does not appear in books or in a museum.

I still have a lot to learn about styles and typeology but I feel like I know a 16th C piece when I hold it. On close inspection I just cannot find anything that says to me that it's later. Weight, quality, forging, impact marks, patina, etc all look correct. If it's not 16th C. then I have to question every item out there.

A few more pics because who doesnt love pictures. I tried to capture the wavy "variation" that is present in good blades when viewed lengthwise.

[NeilUK]

Sorry, Casey, but that is my opinion, formed from years of studying 2-handers.
I accept that I have not handled your sword and it is certainly a talking point to hang on the wall.
Regards, Neil

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Sorry but I concur with Neil's view. Even if this was perhaps a bearing sword not meant for combat, I would have throught something similar would have surfaced in a museum by now.

Sadly, a large number of excellent copies of medieval swords were manufactured as decoration items in the Victorian period and now have age and patina makeing them difficult to spot.

It looks impressive and I hope Neil and I are wrong, but I share his view that this is a decorative piece, maybe late Victorian or even more recent.

The other issue hitting the medieval market now is the practice of smelting down old iron objects to make fake medieval swords that would pass an age test. I am told that this is why so many are now turning up on Ebay.

Naturally I would not expect the purchaser to reveal what was paid for this sword, however price plus the provenance can sometimes complete the picture when it comes to authenticity.

regards Cathey

[cornelistromp]

as in my previous post, I still leave open the possibility that it is a fantasy sword, however from the 16th century.

Of course if you only base on the style, I don't know anything from the 16th century that resembles it at all.

But,,,there are some small details that I really like, the wedge-shaped flexible blade, the technique of the etching, the brass decorations on the grip , are identical as on fe burgonet helmets.

so as explained in my previous post, I'll leave both, 16th century and 19th century, options open.

Of course I respect everyone's opinion, especially in the area of two-handers, Neil's opinion.
There are not many who have delved into this subject as much as he has. He is an authority in this field :-)

re: Provenance
Provenance says a lot about medieval swords because 99.9% of the fakes are made after 2000.
In this case 16th or 19th century, provenance says much less, if you can go back 100 years, you still have no clarity.

best
Jasper

[ulfberth]

Of course I respect everyones opinion.
Opinions are formed by background, experience, as we can read here in the reactions.
I have been collecting for more than 45 years now, had about 15 of these in my collection, handled
and studied them over the years.
From my background I was trained to see the smallest defects, this was my job.
When I look at the surface of this steel I see exactly what one needs to see on swords of this period.
I never saw a sword with these features on eBay and these are mostly of much simpler form, simpler meaning less cost to make and more profit.
As for fantasy, yes I agree, but people in the 16th and 17th c had fantasy too.
As Cornelis pointed out, the etching work, the brass parts as on the helmets of the period
and also the thicker midsection on the grip can be found on halberds of the 16th C.
I would like to add to that, the chiseling and engraving work, anybody here that has done hand work would realize that applying all these details would cost countless of hours.
As i pointed out before, it's the way as done on this sword, it is exactly as on swords of the period in museums.
More swords and helmets etc. made in this era are not in museums.
This is because there was no regulation pattern as in the 19 th C were you had reglementary types.
In the 16th and 17th century every blacksmith in every town did his own thing.
In all my years of collecting I handled a fair number 19th c and later copies to, as i believe its just as important to study these,but not one of them " not one!" ..... had good balance,they were all too heavy.
I can only say what I see based upon my education and years of experience and what I see a late 16th c sword
probably made for the field and perhaps later used as a bearing sword.
kind regards
Ulfberth

[Lee]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

...Provenance says a lot about medieval swords because 99.9% of the fakes are made after 2000...

Perhaps I'd roll this observation back about an order of magnitude, to 99%. On a couple of occasions I have had experienced museum curators confide to me that more than a few of the most iconic (and beloved) medieval swords in some very well regarded museum collections are, at the very best, 19th century enhancements and composites. (Technical examination has also raised concerns about some examples in my own collection with earlier reliable provenance.)

As to the subject of this thread, it is an amazingly proficient piece of work and the forging artifacts and patina are most convincing to me from looking at the photos, but I am not competent to judge as to whether 19th versus 16th century.

[awdaniec666]

Originally Posted by CSinTX

... then I have to question every item out there.

This is the beginning of a fascinating, but laborious journey...
Every time I think analizing a sword became easy I notice there is always a new layer of knowledge to be acquired which has been hidden before.
"Feeling" is always good but there were very able craftsmen in the 19th century and even today.