Another Afar gile

Ian · 27th February 2024, 09:37 AM

Pertinax, I can say with some confidence that the hilt in your first post is not bone. My guess is wood (or perhaps horn)--the grain/fibrous nature is quite pronounced. Perhaps others more familiar with horn in that area can give you a more specific answer.

Sajen · 27th February 2024, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Pertinax, I can say with some confidence that the hilt in your first post is not bone. My guess is wood (or perhaps horn)--the grain/fibrous nature is quite pronounced. Perhaps others more familiar with horn in that area can give you a more specific answer.

Hello Ian,

Looks like some sort of blonde horn to my eyes!

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 28th February 2024, 02:02 AM

Hi Detlef,

I'm inclined to agree, although rhino or giraffe horn would be exceedingly uncommon on a gile. If it is either of those horns, the value of the knife increases considerably. The cracks seen at the butt end can be found on horn that has dried out, and then cleaved along longitudinal lines in its structure. The same is true for wood of course. I suspect the material needs some TLC with application of a light oil to improve its state of hydration, and perhaps close those cracks a bit.

Pertinax, if this is horn you have a valuable piece.

Martin Lubojacky · 28th February 2024, 05:52 AM

I believe we can see a knot from branch at the location indicated and that it is therefore wood

Ian · 28th February 2024, 12:54 PM

ML, you could be correct. Hard to say. What you have circled is a small hole in the hilt that is darker than the surrounding area. This looks like a fairly old and much used hilt, and I think it would take a careful direct inspection to know exactly what the hilt is made from. Maybe even a hot wire in a discreet area to see if it smelled like burning wood or hair.

Pertinax · 28th February 2024, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

I believe we can see a knot from branch at the location indicated and that it is therefore wood

Martin you're right.

I took a hot needle and conducted an experiment on the handle. To my regret it turned out to be a tree. How I wished it was a horn or a bone! But I wasn’t too upset, gile is very interesting and worthy.

Regards, Yuri

Martin Lubojacky · 28th February 2024, 09:34 PM

Yuri,You've got nice and typical gile.
From my point of view, what is valued in these objects is their originality, the fact that they bear signs of daily use, patina and at the same time preservation. They may not be very old, but they are real, genuine "artifacts". These "everyday use" objects age quickly and even acquire patina quickly in Africa. Also it is not easy to discern true age of gile - two versions, which already differ in the decoration on the handle due to changes in taste or availability of decorative materials, and between which there is e.g.a difference of perhaps twenty years, have almost the same patina. But that doesn't bother the gile. They are still in use, at least as part of the costume.

As for the material for the handle, I believe that the Afars and Issa and similar groups have always used wood for the handle. The exception to this are those large and considerably heavier knives with a rounded blade tip, similar to a gile, but which have a slightly different blade shape and different sheaths. In these, the handles are indeed mostly rhinoceros horn and often have a silver pommel. However, these have certainly not been made for somme time and are disproportionately rarer. The question, in my opinion, is whether these were the weapons actually used by the Afars ("Danakils"), because even in old photos from the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries, the true Afar gile have a basically contemporary appearance. I think that these large knives with rhino handles may have been used by elders of some Oromo groups sharing an environment with the Afars, their neighbours. I'm afraid no one is able to satisfactorily explain this today.

Martin

Pertinax · 28th February 2024, 10:51 PM

Thank you Martin

Sajen · 28th February 2024, 10:57 PM

Agree here with Martin, your new gile is a real beauty in view of an artefact which was long time in use.
I like your gile equal if the handle is from horn or from wood!

28th February 2024, 05:52 AM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 836	I believe we can see a knot from branch at the location indicated and that it is therefore wood Attached Images

27th February 2024, 09:37 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,043	Pertinax, I can say with some confidence that the hilt in your first post is not bone. My guess is wood (or perhaps horn)--the grain/fibrous nature is quite pronounced. Perhaps others more familiar with horn in that area can give you a more specific answer.

28th February 2024, 02:02 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,043	Hi Detlef, I'm inclined to agree, although rhino or giraffe horn would be exceedingly uncommon on a gile. If it is either of those horns, the value of the knife increases considerably. The cracks seen at the butt end can be found on horn that has dried out, and then cleaved along longitudinal lines in its structure. The same is true for wood of course. I suspect the material needs some TLC with application of a light oil to improve its state of hydration, and perhaps close those cracks a bit. Pertinax, if this is horn you have a valuable piece.

28th February 2024, 12:54 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,043	ML, you could be correct. Hard to say. What you have circled is a small hole in the hilt that is darker than the surrounding area. This looks like a fairly old and much used hilt, and I think it would take a careful direct inspection to know exactly what the hilt is made from. Maybe even a hot wire in a discreet area to see if it smelled like burning wood or hair.

28th February 2024, 09:34 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 836	Yuri,You've got nice and typical gile. From my point of view, what is valued in these objects is their originality, the fact that they bear signs of daily use, patina and at the same time preservation. They may not be very old, but they are real, genuine "artifacts". These "everyday use" objects age quickly and even acquire patina quickly in Africa. Also it is not easy to discern true age of gile - two versions, which already differ in the decoration on the handle due to changes in taste or availability of decorative materials, and between which there is e.g.a difference of perhaps twenty years, have almost the same patina. But that doesn't bother the gile. They are still in use, at least as part of the costume. As for the material for the handle, I believe that the Afars and Issa and similar groups have always used wood for the handle. The exception to this are those large and considerably heavier knives with a rounded blade tip, similar to a gile, but which have a slightly different blade shape and different sheaths. In these, the handles are indeed mostly rhinoceros horn and often have a silver pommel. However, these have certainly not been made for somme time and are disproportionately rarer. The question, in my opinion, is whether these were the weapons actually used by the Afars ("Danakils"), because even in old photos from the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries, the true Afar gile have a basically contemporary appearance. I think that these large knives with rhino handles may have been used by elders of some Oromo groups sharing an environment with the Afars, their neighbours. I'm afraid no one is able to satisfactorily explain this today. Martin

28th February 2024, 10:51 PM	#8
Pertinax Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Location: City by the Black Sea Posts: 109	Thank you Martin

28th February 2024, 10:57 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,569	Agree here with Martin, your new gile is a real beauty in view of an artefact which was long time in use. I like your gile equal if the handle is from horn or from wood!