Cut-steel smallsword (not mourning)

shayde78 · 22nd December 2020, 09:30 PM

Well, I had to wait until the afternoon to post my most recent acquisition because I am fairly sure this is not a 'mourning' sword. That said, if this had been blackened, it would surly qualify. I wanted to include the word 'mourning' in the title/post to help out the search engine for future reference.

As an early holiday gift to myself, I stumbled upon this cut-steel small sword with (what I believe) is the complete chain guard and a robust/heavy triangular blade. To me, it is a beautiful as any Christmas ornament!

Total length: 36"
Blade length: 29.25"
Guard: 4.06" x 2.80"
Quillions: 4.5"
Hilt (entire): 6.5"
Weight: 1lb 2.75oz.
POB: 4" forward of the guard

I had always thought of these (having only seen pictures in books) as the dainty jewelry of arms. All flash and no substance, as it were. However, holding this in hand, this is a substantial weapon that would be entirely effective for its purposes (albeit, the reach is a little wanting). I had not known of blades of this profile that are flat sided triangular - not hallow-ground on the sides. This is like a giant knitting needle, but deadly sharp.

The hilt has the typical faceted nail heads arraigned in a less typical spiral layout that covers the grip and extends onto the urn-shaped pommel. The pas d'ane are truly vestigial, serving merely a decorative function as a nod to conventional form.

I have not been able to find a picture of a chain of this nature. It consists of two complete strands extending from pommel to guard, with additional 'tassels' at the pommel end. Overall, these seem reminiscent of a swordknot executed in steel.

This example also came with a partially intact scabbard. The metal throat has nice scalloped details, and of course, it is designed to accept the unique blade.

I found one of similar (although not identical) hilt design sold originally by Meyer & Mortimer, 36 Conduit St., London. Still, I've not seen one that had this unique chain, and even the blade on the one I mention is similar is described as 'hallow ground'.

So, what are your thoughts? My very basic understanding is, given all the features noted above, this would date from 1790-1810). Would you agree?

As always, I appreciate your feedback.

edited to include weight and point-of-balance (POB)

Jim McDougall · 23rd December 2020, 04:09 AM

Shayde, first I just would like to say this is pretty much a perfectly presented and described example and I like the way you present it with your own observations, research and detailed dimensions. In my view this is a great way to present a weapon for discussion. Thank you!

I think you have pretty much nailed it (no pun intended) in your assessment, and this does appear to be a cut steel hilt of the period 1790-1810. The small sword had been in decline by the 1780s and these fancy hilts were often more fashion statement than functional weapon.
However as you note, this seems quite the contrary. The blade is with the triangular cross section known as 'hollow ground' and used on small swords through the 18th century. 'Hollow' simply means each of the three blade faces were 'hollowed' or ground concave.

I agree this is probably not a 'mourning' sword, which is sort of a misleading term as these swords were not exclusively worn in those circumstances alone. They were considered well as 'town swords' for regular wear and many cut steel swords were blackened or russeted to show off the embellished metal ornamentation.

There is not a lot of detail in Aylward (1945) helpful toward this particular example and I do not have Dean (1929) handy at the moment.

I think the general appearance of this example, which is really attractive in a macabre, mechanical almost a 'steam punk' kind of way, is much in accord with your own assessment. As noted with a similar hilt style in the catalog of one firm, but not with this style of chain, but these dealers operated mostly with pretty much custom work and catalogs represented examples but not necessarily swords on hand. Therefore these type 'chains' may have been almost 'one off' but it seems I have seen this kind of setup before.

As always, looking forward to other input, but this is an extremely esoteric collecting field. It is a most intriguing example!!

fernando · 23rd December 2020, 10:10 AM

Congrats for a splendid unique piece. Thanks much for sharing

.

mariusgmioc · 23rd December 2020, 11:21 AM

Yep, when I first saw the photos I thought of an English 19th century smallsword.

Also from the photos, I would have guessed the hilt is of oxidized silver...

Indeed this type of blade is rather unusual but has been used more frequently in 19th century sword-sticks.

fernando · 23rd December 2020, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

... Indeed this type of blade is rather unusual but has been used more frequently in 19th century sword-sticks.

I take it that you are certain of such assessment, Marius.

What if ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comm...found_on_many/

shayde78 · 23rd December 2020, 08:04 PM

Thank you for the great feedback, so far. Jim - if my presentation is one you appreciate, it is only because I have watched all of you and how you either present your own pieces and/or the information you ask others to provide. It is a representation of good mentorship by the forum en masse.

I wanted to clarify that this blade is NOT hollow-ground. The faces of the blade are totally flat. I think Marius is correct in that this type of blade might appear in a sword sticks, and the like. It reminds me of estoc blades (although those would typically be 4-sided) but I am in no way suggesting this is such a blade. Merely reminiscent of such. I do feel the blade is original to this hilt, however, as all is well balanced, the scabbard is made to fit, and the proportions are otherwise right. The peen also looks to be original and untampered with.

Would you agree the tassels on the chain at the pommel end are designed to emulate a sword knot? This is pure speculation on my part, but seems possible.

22nd December 2020, 09:30 PM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 443	Cut-steel smallsword (not mourning) Well, I had to wait until the afternoon to post my most recent acquisition because I am fairly sure this is not a 'mourning' sword. That said, if this had been blackened, it would surly qualify. I wanted to include the word 'mourning' in the title/post to help out the search engine for future reference. As an early holiday gift to myself, I stumbled upon this cut-steel small sword with (what I believe) is the complete chain guard and a robust/heavy triangular blade. To me, it is a beautiful as any Christmas ornament! Total length: 36" Blade length: 29.25" Guard: 4.06" x 2.80" Quillions: 4.5" Hilt (entire): 6.5" Weight: 1lb 2.75oz. POB: 4" forward of the guard I had always thought of these (having only seen pictures in books) as the dainty jewelry of arms. All flash and no substance, as it were. However, holding this in hand, this is a substantial weapon that would be entirely effective for its purposes (albeit, the reach is a little wanting). I had not known of blades of this profile that are flat sided triangular - not hallow-ground on the sides. This is like a giant knitting needle, but deadly sharp. The hilt has the typical faceted nail heads arraigned in a less typical spiral layout that covers the grip and extends onto the urn-shaped pommel. The pas d'ane are truly vestigial, serving merely a decorative function as a nod to conventional form. I have not been able to find a picture of a chain of this nature. It consists of two complete strands extending from pommel to guard, with additional 'tassels' at the pommel end. Overall, these seem reminiscent of a swordknot executed in steel. This example also came with a partially intact scabbard. The metal throat has nice scalloped details, and of course, it is designed to accept the unique blade. I found one of similar (although not identical) hilt design sold originally by Meyer & Mortimer, 36 Conduit St., London. Still, I've not seen one that had this unique chain, and even the blade on the one I mention is similar is described as 'hallow ground'. So, what are your thoughts? My very basic understanding is, given all the features noted above, this would date from 1790-1810). Would you agree? As always, I appreciate your feedback. edited to include weight and point-of-balance (POB) Attached Images Last edited by shayde78; 23rd December 2020 at 12:01 AM.

23rd December 2020, 04:09 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,740	Shayde, first I just would like to say this is pretty much a perfectly presented and described example and I like the way you present it with your own observations, research and detailed dimensions. In my view this is a great way to present a weapon for discussion. Thank you! I think you have pretty much nailed it (no pun intended) in your assessment, and this does appear to be a cut steel hilt of the period 1790-1810. The small sword had been in decline by the 1780s and these fancy hilts were often more fashion statement than functional weapon. However as you note, this seems quite the contrary. The blade is with the triangular cross section known as 'hollow ground' and used on small swords through the 18th century. 'Hollow' simply means each of the three blade faces were 'hollowed' or ground concave. I agree this is probably not a 'mourning' sword, which is sort of a misleading term as these swords were not exclusively worn in those circumstances alone. They were considered well as 'town swords' for regular wear and many cut steel swords were blackened or russeted to show off the embellished metal ornamentation. There is not a lot of detail in Aylward (1945) helpful toward this particular example and I do not have Dean (1929) handy at the moment. I think the general appearance of this example, which is really attractive in a macabre, mechanical almost a 'steam punk' kind of way, is much in accord with your own assessment. As noted with a similar hilt style in the catalog of one firm, but not with this style of chain, but these dealers operated mostly with pretty much custom work and catalogs represented examples but not necessarily swords on hand. Therefore these type 'chains' may have been almost 'one off' but it seems I have seen this kind of setup before. As always, looking forward to other input, but this is an extremely esoteric collecting field. It is a most intriguing example!!

23rd December 2020, 10:10 AM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Congrats for a splendid unique piece. Thanks much for sharing .

23rd December 2020, 11:21 AM	#4
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,871	Yep, when I first saw the photos I thought of an English 19th century smallsword. Also from the photos, I would have guessed the hilt is of oxidized silver... Indeed this type of blade is rather unusual but has been used more frequently in 19th century sword-sticks.

23rd December 2020, 08:04 PM	#6
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 443	Thank you for the great feedback, so far. Jim - if my presentation is one you appreciate, it is only because I have watched all of you and how you either present your own pieces and/or the information you ask others to provide. It is a representation of good mentorship by the forum en masse. I wanted to clarify that this blade is NOT hollow-ground. The faces of the blade are totally flat. I think Marius is correct in that this type of blade might appear in a sword sticks, and the like. It reminds me of estoc blades (although those would typically be 4-sided) but I am in no way suggesting this is such a blade. Merely reminiscent of such. I do feel the blade is original to this hilt, however, as all is well balanced, the scabbard is made to fit, and the proportions are otherwise right. The peen also looks to be original and untampered with. Would you agree the tassels on the chain at the pommel end are designed to emulate a sword knot? This is pure speculation on my part, but seems possible.