Caravaggio - paintings of armor and edged weapons 1590s-1610

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

"...discovery consists of seeing what everybody
has seen;
and thinking what nobody else has thought"
-Albert von Szent-Gyorgy



However, we wonder why they would be so much more effected than the average person of the time, if indeed they were. Surely not every artist was adversely effected as they all used lead based paint. However, possibly certain artists had peculiar quirks or habits, such as wetting their brush in their mouth etc. Possibly they were exposed to other sources of the same noxious elements, adding to a 'perfect storm' in the exposure.

It seems to me the term 'mad' is much overused and often inappropriately to note persons who are quirky or obsessed in certain areas, or sometimes many, in eclectic interests. People of intellect are often, possibly even almost typically, somewhat socially inept.

It has been my impression that duelists and brawlers were often regarded in their hubris as romantic and exciting figures, much as the famed gunfighters (then shootists) of the wild west, and much celebrated.

Caravaggio probably was not entirely averse to this reputation, and as art is as noted, often deeply allegorical, these nuances such as discussed are probably more in that regard than result of derangement caused by lead poisoning in specific.

Jim, you raise some very valid and quite interesting points!

1. Regarding paint chemistry, I'm not at all certain how many artists' pigments of the Middle Ages and Renaissance contained lead. Also considering the differences in techniques required different compositions. For instance, there were watercolors, tempera (based on egg white), oils, etc. Applied to various bases (wood, various fabrics, leather, and fresh plaster). For architectural pigments, I read somewhere that milk-based paints were popular because they were cheap considering the large areas to be covered; these were used into the 19th cent. and there is at least one company still making bovine pigment for historical restoration purposes -- and it's no longer an economy priced product.

2. Licking of brushes -- makes some sense with watercolor or tempera, but sounds mighty unpleasant with oil paints! Eesh!

3. Madness, like insanity, are common vernacular and literary terms but have not been part of the legal or medical vocabulary for donkey years. Human behavior is affected by a lot of factors -- glandular and cerebral function and chemistry are complex issues.

4. Celebrated heroes of the past -- they become more heroic and less dastardly as they recede into the historic past, and after novelists and Hollywood have their say!

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks very much Philip!
I had not thought of that, artists palettes' pigments used various minerals for colors, with various binders such as gum arabic, and egg based tempera etc.
It would seem that the white pigment was the real culprit for lead, and later zinc oxide was one of the substitutes as the white lead was of course noxious.

It seems oil became popular in Europe around late 15th into 16th c. despite having been known in other cultures much earlier even into ancient times.

On the subject matter of the 'head' theme with David holding the head of Goliath, it seems that that subject was in a painting by Giorgiones c.1500 (he died 1510) so much before Caravaggio in latter 16th c. While the subject matter seems grim, the Giorgiones held the same effect, so it appears to have been part of the Biblical 'theme'.

Back to the paints, it would seem, as you well note, the tightening of the bristles of the brush by mouth would not be 'tasteful' and in the case of oils or especially any white pigment simply not likely. Therefore the plausibility for lead poisoning presumed from artists paint seems notably diminished for Caravaggio and probably other artists in same degree.

Other sources such as the wine circumstance, or exposure in other environmental circumstances are more likely for consideration.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It would seem that the white pigment was the real culprit for lead, and later zinc oxide was one of the substitutes as the white lead was of course noxious.

Other sources such as the wine circumstance, or exposure in other environmental circumstances are more likely for consideration.

Jim, you might also want to know that white lead, until the last century, was widely used in many places for architectural and maritime applications. It was considered efficacious in protecting the joints of timber framing against rot. During my college years I worked part time for a local museum restoring a 19th cent. iron-hulled four-master, which of course had wooden decks, bulkheads, rails, and other elements of the superstructure and rigging. We occasionally had to apply white lead to areas such as the mating surfaces between wood and wrought iron. And of course warned by the foreman to wear gloves and goggles, and keep fingers away from our faces! The stuff had the consistency of thick yogurt.

Another protective, red lead, was painted onto exposed iron as a primer because of its rust-proofing qualities.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Philip

... Another protective, red lead, was painted onto exposed iron as a primer because of its rust-proofing qualities.

Filipe, you must be referring to what we call it over here "zarcão" (from the Arab zarkún = fire colour). I used to sell it in retail when i worked in an ironmonger when i was a kid; heavy stuff. And i remember seen my father's workers applying it as a primer to house gates.

[shayde78]

Originally Posted by fernando

Filipe, you must be referring to what we call it over here "zarcão" (from the Arab zarkún = fire colour). I used to sell it in retail when i worked in an ironmonger when i was a kid; heavy stuff. And i remember seen my father's workers applying it as a primer to house gates.

I live near the ocean and it used to be used extensively at the dockyards to protect against the corrosive effects of salt water. I have an empty bucket somewhere that still says "Red Lead". I'll have to fish it out and post a picture here.
Also, not from personal experience, but I picked up over the years that lead has a sweet taste and this is why children eating paint chips has been a problem in homes with lead paint. Probably why it was added to cheap wine and why an artist might find themselves dipping their brush in their mouth from time to time.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by shayde78

I live near the ocean and it used to be used extensively at the dockyards to protect against the corrosive effects of salt water. I have an empty bucket somewhere that still says "Red Lead". I'll have to fish it out and post a picture here.
Also, not from personal experience, but I picked up over the years that lead has a sweet taste and this is why children eating paint chips has been a problem in homes with lead paint. Probably why it was added to cheap wine and why an artist might find themselves dipping their brush in their mouth from time to time.

OK, fish it out for a photo op but for goodness' sake don't go fishing near those dockyards! Or if you do, don't eat the fish you catch! We'd like to see you contributing great threads for discussion for many years to come.

[shayde78]

Originally Posted by Philip

OK, fish it out for a photo op but for goodness' sake don't go fishing near those dockyards! Or if you do, don't eat the fish you catch! We'd like to see you contributing great threads for discussion for many years to come.

50 miles south of the mouth of the Hudson River - there's more to be worried about in the water than some mere lead! That said, the seafood here is top notch. Anyway, I found the old empty bucket of Red Lead (official Dutch Boy product). A small 2 gallon bucket (maybe 3 gallons, but I don't think so) weighed 50lbs, so you can see how heavy this stuff was!

[gp]

although Kant tells us one can not dispute 'bout taste,
I think Caravaggio's Judith is not so strong compared to 'the female Caravaggio' ( Artemisia)

if you have a look at the first by Michelangelo Merisi AKA Caravaggio and the next 2 by Artemisia Gentileschi

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

On the subject matter of the 'head' theme with David holding the head of Goliath, it seems that that subject was in a painting by Giorgiones c.1500 (he died 1510) so much before Caravaggio in latter 16th c. While the subject matter seems grim, the Giorgiones held the same effect, so it appears to have been part of the Biblical 'theme'.

.

In this thread we see two paintings based on Biblical narratives, and featuring beheadings. It is interesting to note one thing in common, besides them featuring heroic figures in the Jewish pantheon. In both cases, the bad guys were done in WITH THEIR OWN SWORDS. Very allegorical -- the evil-doer meeting his end with his own implement of oppression and destruction.

Note that David used a blade to actually finish off Goliath:

"So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, striking down the Philistine...there was no sword in David's hand. Then David ran and stood over the Philistine; he grasped his sword, drew it out of its sheath, and killed him, then cut off his head with it." ( 1 Samuel 17.50-51 )

Judith's killing of the Assyrian general Holofernes is an inspiration to Israeli commandos today. Captured by the Assyrians, she wrangled an invite to the general's banquet, and having had some after-dinner drinks with him in his tent, waited for him to fall asleep. Upon which she...

"...went up to the bedpost near Holofernes' head, and took down his sword that hung there. She came close to his bed, took hold of the hair of his head...then she struck his neck twice with all her might, and cut off his head. ... Soon after she went out and gave Holofernes' head to her maid, who placed it in her food bag." (Judith, 13.6-10)

Just like in the painting!