An Haussa takouba

[Yvain]

Interesting, what date would you attribute to the fittings and scabbard ? And why do you think someone would try to emulate older style takouba ? That would be the first one I see one trying to look older than it is

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Yvain

Interesting, what date would you attribute to the fittings and scabbard ? And why do you think someone would try to emulate older style takouba ? That would be the first one I see one trying to look older than it is

Since takoubas are still in use, not as weapons but more as part of male attire, in certain parts of the Sahel, it may have been refitted for someone to wear. Or alternatively, it may have been refitted to make it more appealing to someone looking for a souvenir. Only whoever did it knows for certain.

My guess for the age of the scabbard and fittings is the last few decades.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Yes, takoubas are in use - as a part of national costume.... The scabbard itself, the leather part, is "old". I think I can say this as I saw production of "new" scabbards in that region ago.

Re. the fittings I don´t know.

But it is questionable, as far as African artefacts generally are concerned, what to consider "old" and what is "new". You cannot compare it with European antiquities. Old in Africa (from collector´s point of view) means decades. If it is more then hundred years, it is nearly a rarity. If they get used to something nice/old and they don´t wont to get rid of it, they don´t hesitate to repair this nice "old thing" (e.g. coming from fifties) with plasitc in seventies and the museum takes it as an artefact documenting tribal life in 2020.

[Jim McDougall]

I very much agree with Teodor and as Martin has well put, the connotation of 'old' is quite broadly interpreted and generally is just decades as noted.
The thing to consider with these weapons of North Africa, especially the takouba, is that they are highly commercialized as souvenirs in the well developed markets of tourism and business.

These swords, while considered regular tribal accouterments still in modern times, like many ethnographic contexts, they are worn knowing they will likely be sold to visitors seeking souvenirs. These then are simply replaced until again sold.

Takouba were typically constantly remounted and with new components especially as they changed hands. This is why so many extremely old blades were once found in them, some hundreds of years old.

In this example the blade is clearly native made, and as noted, likely late 19th c. to early 20th, copying the early 'masri' blades which were indeed made by Hausa smiths. Interestingly this blade does not have the 'dukari' (half moons) characteristic of these blades.

Also, as noted, the brass mounts on this are simply pierced, not tooled,and seem quite modern, contrary to early mounts, which even cleaned carry the character of age in various ways.

Obviously, as with most ethnographic weapons, traditional styles are maintained not only for generations, but many centuries. That is why modern versions of these weapons are produced, and souvenir hunters seek them as similar to those seen in collections etc.

There are some takouba which are genuine heirlooms which many Tuareg, especially elders, will NOT part with. These are the ones which invariably seem to have VERY old blades and sometimes mounts......but the leather almost never is old.............in the Sahara, not too durable.

[Yvain]

This as evolved into a very interesting conversation thanks to you all ! I thought that modern takouba where almost always of "modern" style, and had never seen before an attempt at emulating an older style.

It seems to me that modern (post-WW2) tuareg takouba are very distinct from the older ones, so is the imitation of an older style specifically an Hausa practice or is there also fairly recent tuareg takouba made in the older style ?

Also, I understand that the pommel and blade on the one I posted are older, but do you think that the new fittings and scabbard were created to be used in situ, or to sell it to visitors ?

Sorry for all the questions, but I really like this type of swords and would love to learn as much as possible about them !

Regarding the blade, it seems like the absence of dukari marks does happen from time to time on wide Hausa blades (for example : http://takouba.org/catalog/index.php...usa-people/132), if I had to hazard a guess, maybe it could be because those blades didn't "pretend" to be of european origin ? (I think I remember reading that the half moon mark was originally stamped on blades by European makers, and was later copied by local smiths to suggest the same quality for their production, but I'm not sure ...)

Finally, while I'm still somewhat sad I didn't get this sword (I still really love the general look of it), I'm glad I didn't overspent on it, thanks for making me feel better about it

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Yvain

This as evolved into a very interesting conversation thanks to you all ! I thought that modern takouba where almost always of "modern" style, and had never seen before an attempt at emulating an older style.

It seems to me that modern (post-WW2) tuareg takouba are very distinct from the older ones, so is the imitation of an older style specifically an Hausa practice or is there also fairly recent tuareg takouba made in the older style ?

Also, I understand that the pommel and blade on the one I posted are older, but do you think that the new fittings and scabbard were created to be used in situ, or to sell it to visitors ?

Sorry for all the questions, but I really like this type of swords and would love to learn as much as possible about them !

Regarding the blade, it seems like the absence of dukari marks does happen from time to time on wide Hausa blades (for example : http://takouba.org/catalog/index.php...usa-people/132), if I had to hazard a guess, maybe it could be because those blades didn't "pretend" to be of european origin ? (I think I remember reading that the half moon mark was originally stamped on blades by European makers, and was later copied by local smiths to suggest the same quality for their production, but I'm not sure ...)

Finally, while I'm still somewhat sad I didn't get this sword (I still really love the general look of it), I'm glad I didn't overspent on it, thanks for making me feel better about it

Dont feel too bad, there are a good number of takouba available occasionally and for reasonable prices, as well as often being of varying age and quality.

As you have found, one of the very best resources on takouba, in my opinion, is the "Takouba Research Society" site, headed by Iain Norman.
I would add here what I know of takouba (as I recall from previous study).

The Hausa, while a tribal group, are most well known for thier fashioning of Saharan blades used in takouba and the mounts of takouba are not necessarily confined to a single tribal fashion. Typically thier blades are marked with the dual pairs of crescent moons, known as 'dukari'. It is unclear as far as I know exactly when the native use of these marks began, and while tempting to attribute thier application as in imitation of these double moons on European blades traded into the Saharan sphere, it is not certain that is the case. It may simply be a doubling of the single crescent moon more commonly seen in European blade cosmological motif.
While double moons are occasionally seen on some European blades, it does not seem to me that there were enough of them to present the influence suggested to cause the nearly invariable use of 'dukari' on Saharan blades.
Briggs (1965) suggested that no European blade he was aware of had these dual moons, and his study of European blades in Tuareg swords has stood as a valuable resource since.

As with most situations, it is of course possible some blades may not have 'dukari' and we know that many early examples were stamped, while others were engraved, often in notable deviation in quality.

The very wide blades referred to as far as I recall, were not Hausa, but usually from other groups further west such as Mossi and others in Mali and other regions where the blade size seems significant with regard to status or station. Some of these reach proportions that would preclude any combat potential. Actually the takouba itself is more a traditional item of dress than actual weapon in modern times of course.

While the presumption that markings on these blades are intended to represent quality, actually it is more related to the folk religion and superstitions/traditions of these tribes, and has to do more with 'magic' imbuement in the blade.
Although European blades were desirable, it was more that they were 'available' and certain markings more aligned with symbolism in place with these beliefs.
Markings seen as one thing in a makers mark, were seen as something altogether different by natives, for example, a cross and orb on German blade was seen as a drum and sticks (a signal of rank tribally).

Naturally these swords are remounted regularly through generations.
Even the more modern examples stand as examples of the ethnographic cultural icons of these tribes. So it is with the collecting and study of these kinds of arms.