A shibriya with a jambiya type blade

motan · 1st July 2020, 09:21 AM

Hi Yvain,
The Ottoman period in Palestine ended in 1917/1918 with Allenby's and the Egyptian expeditionary force's conquest of the area. Late Ottoman is usually meant late 19th to the end of ww1.
The large majority of these daggers come from GB, with some from Australia and New Zealand, so brought back by soldiers returning after the war and from British mandate in Palestine. Yours looks like an early type that has been well-used by the time it was bought, so it could be made before 1918, though not likely before 1900.

Yvain · 1st July 2020, 09:19 PM

Again, thank you very much for this precious information Motan !

Interestingly, I bought this one in France (from someone that obviously had no idea what it was).

I've started to delve into early XXth century pictures of Palestine, but had no luck so far.

Rich · 1st July 2020, 09:47 PM

I know nothing of this type of knife. But I like it. It has a beautiful, somewhat primitive charm.
Rich

motan · 2nd July 2020, 12:23 PM

Hi Yvain,
Thank you for showing this dagger. Always good to know that I am not the only one interested in these daggers.
Many collectors look down on ethnographic weapons from the Levant, maybe because they are relatively recent and primitive, and come from an area in the center of Islamic civilization that produced some of the best quality and most beautiful non-Western weapons (Persia, Caucasus, Turkey etc).
But the area in question was very impoverished and decentralized at the end of Ottoman rule, and landscape is barren and discontinuous. This has lead to small, local production centers with their own style and traditions, while Ottoman officials and soldiers used weapons from their land of Origin, or locally made versions of those.
I also got some daggers from France. The northern border of Palestine borders the French mandate lands of Syria and Lebanon. Many daggers from these border area (for example, Majdali daggers from Jabal al Sheikh/Hermon) were bought by both British and French soldiers.

Yvain · 2nd July 2020, 10:29 PM

Hi Rich,

indeed, that's what appealed to me when I first saw it !

Hi Motan,

You're welcome, it's always a pleasure to share my modest collection ! I've always been interested in the pratical use of ancient weapons, I've been studying HEMA for quite some time now, and will hopefully start doing HAMA soon; as such, I've always been more interested in the simple, practical, and functional weapons, rather than the lavishly ornated prestige pieces, that are most of the times not intended to be used.

But I digress, the French mandate in Syria would indeed very well explain how that khanjar ended here in the first place !

I haven't had much time for it today, but if I ever find any photographic evidence of this type of dagger I'll let you know !

1st July 2020, 09:21 AM	#1
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi Yvain, The Ottoman period in Palestine ended in 1917/1918 with Allenby's and the Egyptian expeditionary force's conquest of the area. Late Ottoman is usually meant late 19th to the end of ww1. The large majority of these daggers come from GB, with some from Australia and New Zealand, so brought back by soldiers returning after the war and from British mandate in Palestine. Yours looks like an early type that has been well-used by the time it was bought, so it could be made before 1918, though not likely before 1900.

1st July 2020, 09:19 PM	#2
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 173	Again, thank you very much for this precious information Motan ! Interestingly, I bought this one in France (from someone that obviously had no idea what it was). I've started to delve into early XXth century pictures of Palestine, but had no luck so far.

1st July 2020, 09:47 PM	#3
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I know nothing of this type of knife. But I like it. It has a beautiful, somewhat primitive charm. Rich

2nd July 2020, 12:23 PM	#4
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi Yvain, Thank you for showing this dagger. Always good to know that I am not the only one interested in these daggers. Many collectors look down on ethnographic weapons from the Levant, maybe because they are relatively recent and primitive, and come from an area in the center of Islamic civilization that produced some of the best quality and most beautiful non-Western weapons (Persia, Caucasus, Turkey etc). But the area in question was very impoverished and decentralized at the end of Ottoman rule, and landscape is barren and discontinuous. This has lead to small, local production centers with their own style and traditions, while Ottoman officials and soldiers used weapons from their land of Origin, or locally made versions of those. I also got some daggers from France. The northern border of Palestine borders the French mandate lands of Syria and Lebanon. Many daggers from these border area (for example, Majdali daggers from Jabal al Sheikh/Hermon) were bought by both British and French soldiers.

2nd July 2020, 10:29 PM	#5
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 173	Hi Rich, indeed, that's what appealed to me when I first saw it ! Hi Motan, You're welcome, it's always a pleasure to share my modest collection ! I've always been interested in the pratical use of ancient weapons, I've been studying HEMA for quite some time now, and will hopefully start doing HAMA soon; as such, I've always been more interested in the simple, practical, and functional weapons, rather than the lavishly ornated prestige pieces, that are most of the times not intended to be used. But I digress, the French mandate in Syria would indeed very well explain how that khanjar ended here in the first place ! I haven't had much time for it today, but if I ever find any photographic evidence of this type of dagger I'll let you know !