Spanish(?) Machete Sword with horn grips

[Ian]

Hi dandon809. Welcome to the Forum.

I agree with Tim. This does look like a refashioned bayonet. Can you provide the overall length, the length of the blade, and the length of the fuller? That might help identify it.

We don't generally get into modern militaria and bayonets on this forum, but this example is more of a "what'sit" so let's see where it goes.

[Interested Party]

Welcome dandon. What does the other side of the blade and scabbard look like? And the spine as well. Tim if this is a bayonet wouldn't there need to be a scarf weld, or the blade of the machete would need to be supper narrow to create a full tang grip with a beaked pommel?

[dandon80]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Welcome dandon. What does the other side of the blade and scabbard look like? And the spine as well. Tim if this is a bayonet wouldn't there need to be a scarf weld, or the blade of the machete would need to be supper narrow to create a full tang grip with a beaked pommel?

Thank you. Here are some photos of the tang, the other side, and a closeup of the blade. Following up from my last reply it's worth noting that the grips are quite crudely pinned despite the blade being better quality.

[Tim Simmons]

It is difficult to be sure of anything with these pictures. The spine would help. The width of metal in the handle does seem to vary. Could be from a late ersatz version? Certainly has a bayonet look. Could the scabbard look like one of those Brazil / Argentine knives? It is far from a machete.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

It is difficult to be sure of anything with these pictures. The spine would help. The width of metal in the handle does seem to vary. Could be from a late ersatz version? Certainly has a bayonet look. Could the scabbard look like one of those Brazil / Argentine knives? It is far from a machete.

There is a book of facsimiles of old weapons catalogs from the late 19th early 20th century (publication date in the late 1960's I believe) that we used sometimes to help determine what we had and its original value. There was a section of old machete ads that, I think, had styles of machetes similar to this in several lengths. I have been trying to remember the title of this book for a year, if someone has a title for me help would be appreciated. But to the point I believe there were some machetes like this, maybe manufactured in Germany??? After twenty plus years my memory is a bit fuzzy on this.

Sorry for not being able to give a citation.

Is there is distinct distil taper in the handle section that would allow for widening the grip to create the pommel? Could that be done if the first step was upsetting the base of the tang with localized heats? There is not a serial number on the other side of the blade which I associate with former military items. I think I am leaning towards factory made tool/weapon as much as I would like to see a repurposed machete. Proportionally at around 18.5 in it seems too wide to be a bayonet.

[Ian]

IP, are you thinking perhaps of some of the old Bannerman catalogs? I don't recall a compendium of catalogs.

[AHite]

I have been following this thread with interest because I am very familiar with blade bayonets from the mid 1800s through WW2. This is not a repurposed bayonet, at least any European or American bayonet that I know. I am inclined to think it is from South America. It is not a sorocabana knife from Brazil, at least in the traditional construction, but the shape of the handle along with the use of horn are similar. My sorocabana has the old three rivets through the ricasso construction, where this knife has one solid blade and handle. However, the fuller on both is similar. Not sure of the blade's origin, but I don't think it's German as the markings on a German blade would be 90 degrees different on the ricasso, above the handle.

This is a cool old machete/short sword/working man's knife with some age.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

There is a book of facsimiles of old weapons catalogs from the late 19th early 20th century (publication date in the late 1960's I believe) that we used sometimes to help determine what we had and its original value. There was a section of old machete ads that, I think, had styles of machetes similar to this in several lengths. I have been trying to remember the title of this book for a year, if someone has a title for me help would be appreciated. But to the point I believe there were some machetes like this, maybe manufactured in Germany??? After twenty plus years my memory is a bit fuzzy on this.

Sorry for not being able to give a citation.

Is there is distinct distil taper in the handle section that would allow for widening the grip to create the pommel? Could that be done if the first step was upsetting the base of the tang with localized heats? There is not a serial number on the other side of the blade which I associate with former military items. I think I am leaning towards factory made tool/weapon as much as I would like to see a repurposed machete. Proportionally at around 18.5 in it seems too wide to be a bayonet.

Are you perhaps thinking of the old catalogs of the "Museum of Historical Arms" , Hoffman brothers based in Florida?
Back in 'the old days' in the late 60s and 70s these catalogs of old arms for sale by mail were invaluable references used before most of the reference volumes used today were published. They are still much cherished by many collectors when found in old book stores (quickly vanishing).

[Jim McDougall]

It seems the 'spear point' on this item is atypical for a machete, which needs a larger blade and with heavier distal end and broader radiused point for chopping. The type of hilt is the only factor that suggests machete.
The initials are unusual in position as noted, and could apply to any number of individual suppliers...the fuller does correspond to many forms of bayonet of the 'sword type' of latter 19th c into 20th, but may have been applied to other blade types.

[RobT]

Hi All,

It may just be coincidence but there was an old file company called Kearney & Foot. It was bought out by Nicholson in 1901 but the name was kept. It would appear that they also made knives because Blackswan Antiques sold one and the picture is still on their website. It doesn't look anything like dandon80's knife though.

Sincerely,
RobT

[dandon80]

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi dandon809. Welcome to the Forum.

I agree with Tim. This does look like a refashioned bayonet. Can you provide the overall length, the length of the blade, and the length of the fuller? That might help identify it.

We don't generally get into modern militaria and bayonets on this forum, but this example is more of a "what'sit" so let's see where it goes.

Thank you for the welcome, and all the opinions so far I really appreciate it. Here are some measurements:

Overall 48cm
Blade - 36.5cm
Fuller - 17.5cm, closer to 17cm on the marked side (but possibly due to pitting)

Alongside ethnographic weapons I collect militaria and specifically cutdowns, and this doesn't strike me as one personally as there are none of the usual suspects I.E grind marks. If it is one it's a very clean example.

I will post some more photos of the tang and other side below. Thanks again!