Coat of Arms of Coucy - messengers badge?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Or maybe a horse trapping

What do you mean by that, Andreas ?

[AHorsa]

Originally Posted by fernando

What do you mean by that, Andreas ?

Horse trappings means something like a horse harness (but more a textile piece I guess): e.g.: https://www.pinterest.de/pin/4645041...c_v2=1a5oPbRcf
But on the examples I´ve found so far the shields were made from textile / embroided. Which makes more practical sense in my eyes than stitching a metal shield on it as you also mentioned.

I´ve found some examples of very huge horse harness pendants (eg: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collec...70010723?img=0 ) but it is still a pendant, not an applique.


What you interpret as letters, Fernando, is just irregularities in the material. Actually I think that this red material is maybe a later replacement to lost enamel and maybe seal lacquer or so


I´ve also postet it in a forum specialized in archaeological medieval findings and there it was stated that it is an authentic piece from 13th century. So it likely could be linked to the period of Enguerrand IV
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enguerrand_IV_de_Coucy
Appart from dating it there was also no clue about what it could have been exactly for

[fernando]

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Horse trappings means something like a horse harness ...

My bad, Andreas; i was confusing the term with "horse traps"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_(carriage)

Originally Posted by AHorsa

... But on the examples I´ve found so far the shields were made from textile / embroided. Which makes more practical sense in my eyes than stitching a metal shield on it as you also mentioned...

I would not know whether some harnesses had leather straps in their composition; just like belts... be them adorned with badges or pendants. But don't take my approaches to the subject as solid .

Originally Posted by AHorsa

also postet it in a forum specialized in archaeological medieval findings and there it was stated that it is an authentic piece from 13th century...

Oh yes; i would not doubt that this is a so early object .


.

[AHorsa]

Thanks for your comment Fernando and happy to hear that you also have no doubts on its age. A very nice example of an astonishing preserved medieval belt you show!

I just searched the net for medieval depictions of knights, noblemen, horses etc. but couldn´t find something fitting. But what I´ve found again is this depiction of a messenger, althogh it is German and 15th century. For me this is still a possible usage of this shield. Will keep on searching

[Rick]

Could this have been attached to the breast piece of a horse harness where the three straps meet? It would seem about the proper size for this.

[AHorsa]

Would be possible I think but hard to proof.
Actually, I don't think it was fixed with rivets somewhere. There is no space for the rivet heads so that they would cause damage to the rim. From the example shown by Fernando and other similar pieces, it seems that appliques have been fixed to leather by rivets. That makes me assume that it was fixed (likely on a textile round) using a thread or so

[fernando]

Excelent find Andreas, that picture of a messenger .
I had (if i should) doubts about what kind of attire they wore, whether hard (armour) or soft clothes. In this case as shown, your badge would not be in the adequate material, but instead a textile one.
On the other hand, i would not agree that your example was fixed to wherever place by tying it with thread; besides being too soft to hold metal edges, the hole in the lower (V) corner would not be in the convenient position for thread binding.
I would bet on it to be riveted (nailed) to a hard material; leather, wood (a chest), metal ... whatever.