Clearly tools, but for what purpose?

Lee · 23rd November 2023, 02:41 PM

A friend recently acquired this trio of sharp, pointy things at an upstate New York auction of a large ethnographic collection. I believe that these started out as files and have been modified to their present shapes. Leatherworking tools or what?

Interested Party · 1st December 2023, 03:18 PM

Hi Lee. Here a few unrelated and probably unhelpful thoughts. How sharp are they? The handles remind me of soldering irons. Could they have been used for seating something in a grove?

Lee · 9th December 2023, 01:06 PM

My friend advises that they "come to a point but you'll never cut yourself on them." Perhaps they are the opposite of caulking chisels and used to remove old oakum from joints?

Rick · 10th December 2023, 07:22 PM

Doubtful that those are caulking irons, Lee.

C4RL · 11th December 2023, 06:16 PM

It's often a problem with "homemade" tools, sometimes they are homemade not for economic reasons but because a tool doesn't exist.
The best I can offer is Burnishers for leather or Bookbinding seeing as they aren't sharp.

C4RL · 25th February 2024, 05:06 AM

Though normally not as crude as these, the shape is reminiscent of the "puntilla toros" used in bull fighting.

Lee · 26th February 2024, 01:55 AM

Thank you C4RL, after doing an image search, I think that puntilla toros is a very good suggestion. I happened to be at their owner's place earlier today and took another look. The tips thin out quite a bit and I suspect could pierce hide.

C4RL · 26th February 2024, 02:05 AM

Yes, thought I haven't seen any as rustic as those the shape is very remanisant of what some use to torture Bulls for entertainment.

Will M · 26th February 2024, 11:53 AM

Most likely for harness/saddle making

Lee · 26th February 2024, 01:12 PM

I did some further reading after repeating the internet search and find descriptions (roughly translated from Spanish) that the puntilla toros is a essentially a slaughterhouse implement used in bullfighting to quickly execute the bull when insertion of the rapier fails to quickly kill the bull.

Graphic animation of use of the puntilla toros (NOT for the sensitive).

fernando · 26th February 2024, 06:35 PM

The analogy is correct in that these things are, or were, basically used for taking down cattle in slaughterhouses. Most probably such was the purpose of the posted examples, as they are a trio and not an isolated unit.
Still their resemblance with Spanish 'puntillas de descabello' can not be ignored; unless the (auction) seller wants to raise the value of his rustic example by 'enhancing' its purpose !

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C4RL · 26th February 2024, 11:04 PM

Great to eventually identify the use of them. 👍

Richard G · 4th March 2024, 01:18 PM

I did wonder when I first saw these if they could be slaughterman's or knacker's wands or rods.

Stop now if you're squeamish.

The idea was to push through the wound caused by stunning or the poleaxe and scrabble the brain. This was thought to prevent any post stunning neuromuscular spasms.

Best wishes
Richard

23rd November 2023, 02:41 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 891	Clearly tools, but for what purpose? A friend recently acquired this trio of sharp, pointy things at an upstate New York auction of a large ethnographic collection. I believe that these started out as files and have been modified to their present shapes. Leatherworking tools or what? Attached Images

10th December 2023, 07:22 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Doubtful that those are caulking irons, Lee. Attached Images

26th February 2024, 01:55 AM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 891	puntilla toros Thank you C4RL, after doing an image search, I think that puntilla toros is a very good suggestion. I happened to be at their owner's place earlier today and took another look. The tips thin out quite a bit and I suspect could pierce hide. Attached Images

26th February 2024, 01:12 PM	#10
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 891	Failsafe I did some further reading after repeating the internet search and find descriptions (roughly translated from Spanish) that the puntilla toros is a essentially a slaughterhouse implement used in bullfighting to quickly execute the bull when insertion of the rapier fails to quickly kill the bull. Graphic animation of use of the puntilla toros (NOT for the sensitive).

26th February 2024, 06:35 PM	#11
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	The analogy is correct in that these things are, or were, basically used for taking down cattle in slaughterhouses. Most probably such was the purpose of the posted examples, as they are a trio and not an isolated unit. Still their resemblance with Spanish 'puntillas de descabello' can not be ignored; unless the (auction) seller wants to raise the value of his rustic example by 'enhancing' its purpose ! - Attached Images

1st December 2023, 03:18 PM	#2
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 387	Hi Lee. Here a few unrelated and probably unhelpful thoughts. How sharp are they? The handles remind me of soldering irons. Could they have been used for seating something in a grove?

9th December 2023, 01:06 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 891	My friend advises that they "come to a point but you'll never cut yourself on them." Perhaps they are the opposite of caulking chisels and used to remove old oakum from joints?

11th December 2023, 06:16 PM	#5
C4RL Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 39	It's often a problem with "homemade" tools, sometimes they are homemade not for economic reasons but because a tool doesn't exist. The best I can offer is Burnishers for leather or Bookbinding seeing as they aren't sharp.

25th February 2024, 05:06 AM	#6
C4RL Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 39	Though normally not as crude as these, the shape is reminiscent of the "puntilla toros" used in bull fighting.

26th February 2024, 02:05 AM	#8
C4RL Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 39	Yes, thought I haven't seen any as rustic as those the shape is very remanisant of what some use to torture Bulls for entertainment.

26th February 2024, 11:53 AM	#9
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 390	Most likely for harness/saddle making

26th February 2024, 11:04 PM	#12
C4RL Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 39	Great to eventually identify the use of them. 👍

4th March 2024, 01:18 PM	#13
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 402	I did wonder when I first saw these if they could be slaughterman's or knacker's wands or rods. Stop now if you're squeamish. The idea was to push through the wound caused by stunning or the poleaxe and scrabble the brain. This was thought to prevent any post stunning neuromuscular spasms. Best wishes Richard