Twist core fullered blade moro kris for id please

[chiefheadknocker]

Hi Ian
Thanks for your help and guidance , once ive cleaned it up i will then be looking for a suitable hilt , i guess this will be quite difficult but surely not impossible to find ,
regards
chief

[Rick]

Is the tang round?

[chiefheadknocker]

Hi rick , yes the tang is round

[kai]

I'm having the same thoughts as Gustav - I'm far from sure this blade really is Moro. Some features may well point to the Jawa-Bali nexus. I need to dig into this in more detail..

Not all archaic Sulu kalis seem to exhibit a topographic etch though; given the vagaries of traveling blades and subsequent restorations, I don't think we can place much weight on this kind of evidence.

Regards,
Kai

[CharlesS]

The care and precision of chiseling are especially impressive on this blade.

[chiefheadknocker]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

The care and precision of chiseling are especially impressive on this blade.

Hi yes the chiseling is very sharp and deep , i have cleaned the blade which makes it show up a little better

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by kai

I'm having the same thoughts as Gustav - I'm far from sure this blade really is Moro. Some features may well point to the Jawa-Bali nexus. I need to dig into this in more detail..

Not all archaic Sulu kalis seem to exhibit a topographic etch though; given the vagaries of traveling blades and subsequent restorations, I don't think we can place much weight on this kind of evidence.

Regards,
Kai

Kai, despite this blade being so close to old Java/Bali, I would say, at the moment it looks like a very early Moro blade to me. It's other question if all archaic blades are Sulu blades indeed.

I don't completely understand your point in sentence about topographic etch if it relates to my previous post - maybe my English was wrong or wasn't clear enough. Surely blades travel and are subsequently differently treated - but the absence of topographical etch on an archaic blade makes it "more archaic" in my eyes - I don't think topographical etch was en vogue before the second half of 18th cent.

[kai]

Hello Gustav,

IMHO a topographic etch can also develop on blades that are (gently) kept in polish; this does seem to be quite common with older Bugis-influenced blades. I rather doubt that any topographic etch that leaves a porous and ragged surface (as seen on blades that have been treated according to tastes prevailing in Jawa for the last, say, 200 years or so) have ever been popular with any Moro group.

My comment was more directed to Moro blades taken to the US: there certainly were quite some GIs and later generations of collectors who were ingrained to keep blades clean and shiny which most likely resulted in overzealous "cleaning" of many acquired pieces. It's not that rare to have twistcore blades with pretty smooth surface; I suspect that a good portion of these are the result of misguided attempts outside the originating culture rather than representing any "original" condition nor Moro cultural preferences...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Just to point out the obvious: The selut does not fit the hilt. Thus, this ensemble has certainly been fiddled with and we only have the blade to go by. (Since keris fittings can be easily exchanged, being cautious if not paranoid is standard practise when appraising these blades, anyway.)

Even larger closeups from both of the assymetrical sides of the blade would be great! (Please make sure to take them directly from above and with lighting to avoid shadows as much as possible!)

Regards,
Kai

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Gustav,

IMHO a topographic etch can also develop on blades that are (gently) kept in polish; this does seem to be quite common with older Bugis-influenced blades. I rather doubt that any topographic etch that leaves a porous and ragged surface (as seen on blades that have been treated according to tastes prevailing in Jawa for the last, say, 200 years or so) have ever been popular with any Moro group.

My comment was more directed to Moro blades taken to the US: there certainly were quite some GIs and later generations of collectors who were ingrained to keep blades clean and shiny which most likely resulted in overzealous "cleaning" of many acquired pieces. It's not that rare to have twistcore blades with pretty smooth surface; I suspect that a good portion of these are the result of misguided attempts outside the originating culture rather than representing any "original" condition nor Moro cultural preferences...

Regards,
Kai

Kai,

topographical etch is described by Newbold in 1839 an is absolutely common thing for Bugis influenced or genuinely Buginese blades with pamor. I would say, on most Moro Kris with twistcore pattern the center panel displaying twistcore will be more or less strongly topographically etched.

To polish a topographically etched twistcore panel until it's absolutely even is a hell of a work even for GI's and collectors obsessed with blade polishing, and after that procedure most of the twistcore will be gone, or you are gone through to other side of the (twisted) bar and that results in quite strange patterns.

A Moro blade with absolutely smooth twistcore pattern is something quite rare and probably will be from a period in which the Pamor wasn't commonly topographically etched. There are even a lot of archaic blades with straight Gonjo, which will be topographically etched, see the pic.

Here a thread with a topographically etched archaic Moro blade:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17894

(If I remember correctly, Ron's example here with smooth twistcore also has a round tang.)

That would possibly place the CHK's blade even earlier as those.

Regards,
Gustav