Filipino cannons

pbleed · 22nd March 2021, 10:31 PM

Dear Friends,
I am a long-time lurker on the Ethnographic Arms and Armour Forum, but I have little skill in this medium, so I rarely have spoken up.
I write today because I am developing a paper on a couple of cannons that I think deserve documentation. I own them. They were brought to the US before America’s involvement in WWI by an early and distinguished officer in the Philippine Constabulary. They both exhibit an interesting break action design. And both are made of older bronze muzzle loading guns.
The smaller gun seems made to accept a 37mm shell. It has a very light inscription on the barrel extension that may say something like “El D??? Baro”. It also carries the number “3” on the wood base. The barrel measures 36.5 cm. I believe that this gun was made of a small Spanish cannon. I would appreciate suggestions and guidance on this topic.
The other gun seems to be a modified lantaka that was adjusted to accept a 1” (Nordenfelt?) round. The barrel is 77 cm long.
I would appreciate any and all advice, but I am especially interested in the break action design of these guns. Is this type at all common?
Thank you. If I can figure out how to do it, I will post some pictures
Peter Bleed

Philip · 22nd March 2021, 11:06 PM

Thanks, and let's see some pictures please!

pbleed · 22nd March 2021, 11:25 PM

I'd love to, but I can't figure out how to do it.
Peter

Ian · 22nd March 2021, 11:34 PM

Peter,

Welcome to the Forum. Please see the following document located on the Ethnographic main page (third item down from the top):
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

pbleed · 23rd March 2021, 01:41 AM

Let's try these!

Rick · 24th March 2021, 01:39 AM

Peter, can you show pictures of the breeches open and maybe a picture from the rear of each gun looking down the barrel/s? Also what is your opinion of the current mountings; display, or functional?
The larger cannon looks like it was cut from a gunwale which would be a reasonable way to mount a gun of this size. The only thing that puzzles me is how the gun was elevated or depressed.
Thanks.

37mm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_gun_M3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_gun

Kubur · 24th March 2021, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbleed

They both exhibit an interesting break action design. And both are made of older bronze muzzle loading guns.

The other gun seems to be a modified lantaka that was adjusted to accept a 1” (Nordenfelt?) round.

Hi Peter,

Are you sure that they were muzzle loading guns? and not breech-loading swivel guns? It is just a question, I know nothing about these cannons.

And are you sure that the second one is a modified lantaka and not an old Portuguese cannon? I wonder if the lantaka were local copies of Portuguese cannons? Close photos would be good.

Kubur

Battara · 25th March 2021, 12:09 AM

I agree with the call for close ups. They don't look like traditional antique lantaks to me, but more late 19thc - early 20thc. IF the second one is an old lantaka, it is such that the lantaka was modified to work on a rail.

pbleed · 25th March 2021, 06:26 PM

I appreciate the responses that have been offered. Thank you and please forgive my ham-handed attempts at communication.
I also failed to communicated in my initial post that these are MODIFIED guns that were altered to make them BREECH LOADERS. I think the smaller gun started as a Spanish mountain gun. The other one looks like a "lantaka", but I wish there was a grand synthesis of those guns. Apparently there isn't one.
Both are mounted on large - but movable - wooden bases. They are absolutely NOT gunwale sections. They look to me like man-handles field artillery.
These guns are both BREAK ACTION breech loaders that were fitted in iron frames that let them pivot open and be firmly closed when they pivoted down. I was hoping to find some precedent for that design somewhere in Asia. More than anything they look to me like BIG shotguns

Edster · 25th March 2021, 07:23 PM

Are the barrels rifled? They may be ships signal guns.

Ed

pbleed · 25th March 2021, 08:19 PM

Indeed they are NOT rifled. There isn't even a distinct shell chamber so the could be anything. They were brought home by a decorated combat officer with the Philippine Constabulary. Why couldn't they be artillery pieces?

fernando · 27th March 2021, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

...I wonder if the lantaka were local copies of Portuguese cannons? ...

No, rather the other way round. The Portuguese later reproduced them ... eventually for local trade, and also as a currency means.

fernando · 27th March 2021, 06:50 PM

Peter, may i assume that the (non lantaka) gun also has an extraction system ?
Could you then shows a photo taken from its back so that we may discern how that system works; visibly not like the one in the lantaka ...

22nd March 2021, 10:31 PM	#1
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	Filipino cannons Dear Friends, I am a long-time lurker on the Ethnographic Arms and Armour Forum, but I have little skill in this medium, so I rarely have spoken up. I write today because I am developing a paper on a couple of cannons that I think deserve documentation. I own them. They were brought to the US before America’s involvement in WWI by an early and distinguished officer in the Philippine Constabulary. They both exhibit an interesting break action design. And both are made of older bronze muzzle loading guns. The smaller gun seems made to accept a 37mm shell. It has a very light inscription on the barrel extension that may say something like “El D??? Baro”. It also carries the number “3” on the wood base. The barrel measures 36.5 cm. I believe that this gun was made of a small Spanish cannon. I would appreciate suggestions and guidance on this topic. The other gun seems to be a modified lantaka that was adjusted to accept a 1” (Nordenfelt?) round. The barrel is 77 cm long. I would appreciate any and all advice, but I am especially interested in the break action design of these guns. Is this type at all common? Thank you. If I can figure out how to do it, I will post some pictures Peter Bleed

23rd March 2021, 01:41 AM	#5
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	Let's try these! Attached Images

24th March 2021, 01:39 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Peter, can you show pictures of the breeches open and maybe a picture from the rear of each gun looking down the barrel/s? Also what is your opinion of the current mountings; display, or functional? The larger cannon looks like it was cut from a gunwale which would be a reasonable way to mount a gun of this size. The only thing that puzzles me is how the gun was elevated or depressed. Thanks. 37mm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_gun_M3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_gun Last edited by Rick; 24th March 2021 at 02:16 AM.

25th March 2021, 06:26 PM	#9
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	I appreciate the responses that have been offered. Thank you and please forgive my ham-handed attempts at communication. I also failed to communicated in my initial post that these are MODIFIED guns that were altered to make them BREECH LOADERS. I think the smaller gun started as a Spanish mountain gun. The other one looks like a "lantaka", but I wish there was a grand synthesis of those guns. Apparently there isn't one. Both are mounted on large - but movable - wooden bases. They are absolutely NOT gunwale sections. They look to me like man-handles field artillery. These guns are both BREAK ACTION breech loaders that were fitted in iron frames that let them pivot open and be firmly closed when they pivoted down. I was hoping to find some precedent for that design somewhere in Asia. More than anything they look to me like BIG shotguns Attached Images

22nd March 2021, 11:06 PM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Thanks, and let's see some pictures please!

22nd March 2021, 11:25 PM	#3
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	I'd love to, but I can't figure out how to do it. Peter

22nd March 2021, 11:34 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,031	Peter, Welcome to the Forum. Please see the following document located on the Ethnographic main page (third item down from the top): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

25th March 2021, 12:09 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I agree with the call for close ups. They don't look like traditional antique lantaks to me, but more late 19thc - early 20thc. IF the second one is an old lantaka, it is such that the lantaka was modified to work on a rail.

25th March 2021, 07:23 PM	#10
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 391	Are the barrels rifled? They may be ships signal guns. Ed

25th March 2021, 08:19 PM	#11
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	Indeed they are NOT rifled. There isn't even a distinct shell chamber so the could be anything. They were brought home by a decorated combat officer with the Philippine Constabulary. Why couldn't they be artillery pieces?

27th March 2021, 06:50 PM	#13
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Peter, may i assume that the (non lantaka) gun also has an extraction system ? Could you then shows a photo taken from its back so that we may discern how that system works; visibly not like the one in the lantaka ...