looking for these 500 years old swords

[bvieira]

Originally Posted by fernando

This iconographic and enigmatic work has been subject, now during a century, to a number of different interpretations, some with rather opposite assumptions. In reality only one personality is unanimously identified in the panels, Henri the Navigator; and even that is not 100% granted for some. Without even trying to dissect the purpose and realism of all 58 figures depicted, we may view this work as a gathering of the Royal Portuguese court and representatives of the various social sectors of the XV century; in one perspective to evoke important triumphs in the expansion of North Africa by the dinasty of Aviz (1385-1580). I would take it as highly improbable that, portraying the presence of so many persons, is obviously only possible in the author's imagination; not to mention that some had already died by the date this work was done, another of the existing discussions.
This to say that i don't see the faintest possibility that the author had at his disposal real swords and lances to pose for his work; as well as the whole attire with which he portraied all those people, like dresses, metals, jewelery and all.

No Fernando! even Henry the navigator is subject to diferent interpretations! the figure we know as henry can be in fact is brother and not him! A figure of him that exists in Jeronimos Monastery, and it is very diferent, at least 3 investigators/writers have conclude the figure we know as him is not real! the last one writing about this is Manuel Gandra, i think he as a video with this issue in youtube.

These paitings are envolved in strange facts, have you seen any order of christ cross in the painting ? how can a meeting envolving navigators do not have any kind of item related to the most important order ? i have seen many flaws in ours history books! so many!

But the swords are very detailed, the only other portuguese painting (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...es_s.paulo.jpg) that i know with similar details is the one that is suposed to be of the same painter.

[Jim McDougall]

All very interesting. If I may interrupt the discussion, in the original post the question concerning four swords is asked. I seem to have missed something, what art work are these from? At least for my own research I would like to know myself and look further on details of the painting (s)? that might suggest the identities of the subjects.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... At least for my own research I would like to know myself and look further on details of the painting (s)? that might suggest the identities of the subjects.

Jim, as already 'lightly' approached, this renaissance huge polyptych (six yards wide) comprises a set of six panels attributed to Nuno Gonçalves, painter and Knight of the royal house of King Dom Afonso V.
Rediscovered in 1883, only after having been restored in 1910, was exhibited to the public. It was then that the (double) central figure in the panels was identified and related with the old altarpiece of the Saint Vincent chapel in the Lisbon head cathedral, a work dated circa 1470.
Saint Vincent (IV century), here dressed with the outfit of a deacon, is profoundly connected with the history of the nation; became patron of the discoveries and also of Lisbon. His tumb was restored circa 1470, which appoints for the panels to be made for such altar.
As for the purpose and identification of the 58+2 persons in the work, there are no less than fourty (educated) interpretations; and still none was so far elected as the exact one.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by bvieira

... No Fernando! even Henry the navigator is subject to diferent interpretations!...

As i suggested in my previous post, Bruno;
" In reality only one personality is unanimously identified in the panels, Henri the Navigator; and even that is not 100% granted for some "
I thought i would not further expand in the two hypothesis (Zurara versus Markl) as not to be boring for the audience.

Originally Posted by bvieira

... i have seen many flaws in ours history books! so many!...

I guess as many as in the history of any other nation.

Originally Posted by bvieira

...But the swords are very detailed, the only other portuguese painting that i know with similar details is the one that is suposed to be of the same painter.

You are referring to Saint Paul, a masterpiece which i had the previlege to be pictured watching; as i recall hanging in the wall behind the São Vicente panels, in the National Museum of Antique Art. In this case its authorship has not been strictly determined; reason why the museum defines it as being a work of Poruguese school "in the style" of Nuno Gonçalves. In this one the sword hilt is depicted with a more plain look, although followig the same parameters.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Fernando.