18th Century Zoomporhic Shamshir

vilhelmsson · 22nd October 2019, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

i don't like to be negative with any forum member.
But here there is no discussion, the hilt is a touristic late stuff.
With the ears nailed and the trump in the air!
With the camel bone i would be tempted to put this art work in the chicken street of Kabul. The blade looks good.
If the blade is good, throw the hilt to the bin and buy a nice tulwar or pulwar hilt...

Well, you guys know what they say about a fool and his money

The challenge for me, of course, is that it's a lot easier to learn about good stuff in books than the cheap looking stuff that would never make it into the books and which is easier to access. The forums are a better place to learn why some inexpensive stuff is crap and why other inexpensive stuff has some redeemable qualities, than spending years accumulating crap before buying something nice and realizing that you've only spent years collecting garbage.

ariel · 22nd October 2019, 09:49 PM

Do not beat yourself up: everybody here went thru the same period. We all have our " walls of shame" ( more precisely boxes in dark rooms).
View it as a price of learning.
On top of that, if the blade is wootz, you got a winner. Changing the handle is simple, and a wootz pulwar will look gorgeous. Locals did it all the time, so you will continue the time-honored tradition:-)

ALEX · 23rd October 2019, 06:57 AM

Vilhelmsson, you do not have to change the handle. Some people are too quick posing their opinions as ultimate guides for everyone to follow. This is quite inconsiderate because it does not regard individual tastes, stages and levels of collecting and collections. Some advice given are like: "your car is not a Ferrari, so throw it away and change to something else".

You liked this sword and the hilt in particular, and used your judgment in doing so. This is nothing to be ashamed of or discarding into the "wall of shame"... unless you were after an early Mughal masterpiece to complete a missing spot in your almost-complete early Mughal masterpieces collection.

Overall, this is a genuine antique sword. Yes, the handle is crudely made in comparison, but this does not imply it must be discarded.

As for wootz, you may test-etch a small portion of the blade without polishing it, good wootz will reveal itself, although I do not think it is wootz based on the photos. Once you know for sure, you may polish the whole blade and etch it to make it cleaner and uniform.

Good luck!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd October 2019, 10:23 AM

I think it likely that some play has been placed in the production of the pommel at #1 here at thread...
… It could be a walking stick head reformed onto this hilt for example and I suspect the ring of bone half way up the grip is also added.
As others have said this doesn't mean the whole thing is fiddled with as there may be a good blade here...I place a highly ornate elephant hilted tulvar and a contemporary dagger and an elephant walking stick head...

ariel · 23rd October 2019, 01:10 PM

Alex is right: you may change the handle only if you absolutely hate the current one. Otherwise, leave it as is. Original status should be preserved as much as possible.
My only hesitation is the bone : it looks very new. Then , switching an ugly new one to a good looking old one is legitimate, IMHO.

Addendum: you do not need a microscope to identify long bone. There are slightly elongated black “spots” all over. These are fragments of blood vessels supplying the bone: they traverse through the periosteum, a thin connective tissue membrane surrounding the outer surface of the bone proper.

23rd October 2019, 10:23 AM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I think it likely that some play has been placed in the production of the pommel at #1 here at thread... … It could be a walking stick head reformed onto this hilt for example and I suspect the ring of bone half way up the grip is also added. As others have said this doesn't mean the whole thing is fiddled with as there may be a good blade here...I place a highly ornate elephant hilted tulvar and a contemporary dagger and an elephant walking stick head... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 23rd October 2019 at 10:35 AM.

23rd October 2019, 01:10 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Alex is right: you may change the handle only if you absolutely hate the current one. Otherwise, leave it as is. Original status should be preserved as much as possible. My only hesitation is the bone : it looks very new. Then , switching an ugly new one to a good looking old one is legitimate, IMHO. Addendum: you do not need a microscope to identify long bone. There are slightly elongated black “spots” all over. These are fragments of blood vessels supplying the bone: they traverse through the periosteum, a thin connective tissue membrane surrounding the outer surface of the bone proper. Last edited by ariel; 23rd October 2019 at 04:13 PM.

22nd October 2019, 09:49 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Do not beat yourself up: everybody here went thru the same period. We all have our " walls of shame" ( more precisely boxes in dark rooms). View it as a price of learning. On top of that, if the blade is wootz, you got a winner. Changing the handle is simple, and a wootz pulwar will look gorgeous. Locals did it all the time, so you will continue the time-honored tradition:-)

23rd October 2019, 06:57 AM	#3
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Vilhelmsson, you do not have to change the handle. Some people are too quick posing their opinions as ultimate guides for everyone to follow. This is quite inconsiderate because it does not regard individual tastes, stages and levels of collecting and collections. Some advice given are like: "your car is not a Ferrari, so throw it away and change to something else". You liked this sword and the hilt in particular, and used your judgment in doing so. This is nothing to be ashamed of or discarding into the "wall of shame"... unless you were after an early Mughal masterpiece to complete a missing spot in your almost-complete early Mughal masterpieces collection. Overall, this is a genuine antique sword. Yes, the handle is crudely made in comparison, but this does not imply it must be discarded. As for wootz, you may test-etch a small portion of the blade without polishing it, good wootz will reveal itself, although I do not think it is wootz based on the photos. Once you know for sure, you may polish the whole blade and etch it to make it cleaner and uniform. Good luck!