Ottoman Yataghan inscription on the blade

[Saracen]

Sure. Emma Astvatsaturyan in "Turkish Arms" explores the collections of two leading Russian museums: the Hermitage and the State Historical Museum. This is a large and sufficient sampling. The largest number of dated yataghans in this sampling falls on the period from 1786 to 1825. Then their number drops sharply (there are dated yataghans after 1825-26, but there are much fewer of them). And around about 1850, their number increases again. At the same time, they have serious differences from the yataghans before 1826. In addition, the author groups yataghans by types of blade decoration. This type, as shown here, has the last date of 1825 and does not occur at all later (Astvatsaturyan name this type yataghans East Anatolian, Elgood assumes its Greek origin. The engraving on the blades really resembles the Greek one, similar is present on Cretan knives). The author assumes that the production of this type completely stopped at this point. She connects this fact with Mahmoud's reforms in the Turkish army and the transition of its weapons to European models. I think this is more related to the liquidation of the Janissary corps. Probably this process was not uniform throughout the empire and on its periphery the production of yataghans did not slow down so much (most likely in Albania and Croatia, where bektashi (banned by Mahmud immediately after the destruction of the Janissaries) and fugitive Janissaries found refuge). But in the central regions, production slowed down so much that some traditions were lost.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Saracen

Sure. Emma Astvatsaturyan in "Turkish Arms" explores the collections of two leading Russian museums: the Hermitage and the State Historical Museum. This is a large and sufficient sampling. The largest number of dated yataghans in this sampling falls on the period from 1786 to 1825. Then their number drops sharply (there are dated yataghans after 1825-26, but there are much fewer of them). And around about 1850, their number increases again. At the same time, they have serious differences from the yataghans before 1826. In addition, the author groups yataghans by types of blade decoration. This type, as shown here, has the last date of 1825 and does not occur at all later (Astvatsaturyan name this type yataghans East Anatolian, Elgood assumes its Greek origin. The engraving on the blades really resembles the Greek one, similar is present on Cretan knives). The author assumes that the production of this type completely stopped at this point. She connects this fact with Mahmoud's reforms in the Turkish army and the transition of its weapons to European models. I think this is more related to the liquidation of the Janissary corps. Probably this process was not uniform throughout the empire and on its periphery the production of yataghans did not slow down so much (most likely in Albania and Croatia, where bektashi (banned by Mahmud immediately after the destruction of the Janissaries) and fugitive Janissaries found refuge). But in the central regions, production slowed down so much that some traditions were lost.

These yataghans were Greek, as in, intended for use in what is nowadays Greece. It would be therefore far more likely that any dropoff in their production would be the result of Greek independence and the transition to a modern army by the newly formed Greek state, than have anything to do with the janissary corpse.

There might be other evidence to support the theory, ideally based on facts and not just observations. The Ottomans kept detailed records of goods produced and sold within the Empire, and any serious research should focus on those.

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by TVV

These yataghans were Greek, as in, intended for use in what is nowadays Greece. It would be therefore far more likely that any dropoff in their production would be the result of Greek independence and the transition to a modern army by the newly formed Greek state, than have anything to do with the janissary corpse.

There might be other evidence to support the theory, ideally based on facts and not just observations. The Ottomans kept detailed records of goods produced and sold within the Empire, and any serious research should focus on those.

I absolutely agree with you about the importance of supporting the theory with factual materials, but I would not belittle the value of empirical data, especially supported by a sufficient statistical sampling.

After 1825-26, there was a noticeable decrease in the quantity of any yataghans, not only Greek ones.

[gp]

Originally Posted by Saracen

Probably this process was not uniform throughout the empire and on its periphery the production of yataghans did not slow down so much (most likely in Albania and Croatia, where bektashi (banned by Mahmud immediately after the destruction of the Janissaries) and fugitive Janissaries found refuge).

Addition:

there were 4 big Sufi orders present in the Balkans, moreover Albania and Bosnia ( Croatia being for the bigger part a part of the Austrian Habsburg Empire and Catholc) :
Mevlani, Bektashi, Halveti, Naqshbandi ( to a lesser degree also the Tabani and Rifā῾īyah).
The biggest was actually Mevlani, followed by the Bektahsi and Naqshbandi in which the latter 2 had a more militant connection.

Regardless the sultan's ban...the Balkans were far away and Sufism still maintained its strong presence in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Till the present day. Even after 1945 Tito's communists could not surpress them and there teki's and zikrs were practising, till the present. So Saracen is right in his statement ! That is why still some blacksmith "masters"can put a horse shoe onto an egg....
These skills have been passed on from father to son and I can tell you from my own experience that it did not take more than one minute for these gents, from father to son for centuries in Sarajevo also during the tragic events in the 1990ies to change from nice fancy tourist copper items to bullets and guns.
From fancy tourist bicaqs to real frontline trench dagger.
The Sultan's words didn't count and did not mean much in the Balkans as you can also read in the books of Andric, Kadare and a few others

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by gp

Addition:

there were 4 big Sufi orders present in the Balkans, moreover Albania and Bosnia ( Croatia being for the bigger part a part of the Austrian Habsburg Empire and Catholc) :
Mevlani, Bektashi, Halveti, Naqshbandi ( to a lesser degree also the Tabani and Rifā῾īyah).
The biggest was actually Mevlani, followed by the Bektahsi and Naqshbandi in which the latter 2 had a more militant connection.

Thanks for this addition