Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st May 2008, 04:19 PM   #1
eftihis
Member
 
eftihis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chania Crete Greece
Posts: 381
Default Albanian judicical- execution kilij?

Hallo i have seen this on a past auction under the above description, but with no other details or better photo.
It seems original, but have never seen something similar!
Any comments?
Attached Images
 
eftihis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2008, 07:41 PM   #2
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 4,722
Default

Very strange thingie..
I would not call it kilij, though. Rater, if anything, it looks like an Ottoman Sossun Pattah.
I would also want better documentation of its " execution" role. First, the scabbard is very utilitarian and " field-like"; second, execution swords everywhere tended to allow for a two-handed grip.
But, all doubts aside, a very impressive baby! I would not want to find myself on its receiving end.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2008, 10:09 PM   #3
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 6,270
Default

I wouldn't call this a soussan pata either......

BTW - would not an Ottoman soussan pata be called a yataghan?
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 12:12 AM   #4
Jim McDougall
Research Consultant
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 7,686
Default

Maybe its a Black Sea sosun pattah ?!!

Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 11:09 AM   #5
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,413
Default It did sell recently

It did sell recently for $7500 dollars plus premiums, in fact the same collection that my Kindjals came from and others I have, from talking to the owner there are a good many more stories to be told about his aquistions. The collection was considered the greatest and most comprehensive antique arms collection on the eastern sea board of Australia. Food for thought.

enjoy

Gav
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 01:45 PM   #6
Yannis
Member
 
Yannis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
Default

It is a unique kilij - yataghan combination, but I cannot see why it is called "Albanian" or execution sword. A normal heavy kilij would be better for the last.
Yannis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2008, 03:35 PM   #7
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 4,722
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
I wouldn't call this a soussan pata either......

BTW - would not an Ottoman soussan pata be called a yataghan?

Well, I should have added a
But, seriously, there are several varieties of Sossun Pattas: the Mughal one is, indeed, just a Yataghan with a "tulwar" handle.
But the Indian ones had recurved, widening blades not dissimilar from the one shown here.
You can see what I mean here
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2052
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=659
http://www.flickr.com/photos/awrose/2250985675/
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 12:20 AM   #8
Bill M
Member
 
Bill M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA Georgia
Posts: 1,593
Default

Indian
Attached Images
 
Bill M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2008, 09:56 AM   #9
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,413
Default nnnnnnniiiiccceeeeee

ooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I like that.

Gav
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2008, 10:59 PM   #10
eftihis
Member
 
eftihis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chania Crete Greece
Posts: 381
Default UPDATE

Hi, i found something very relevant to the previous one! But this looks even more like a beheading sword.
Any translation of the arabic text?
Attached Images
     
eftihis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2010, 11:16 PM   #11
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,413
Default translation

Good people,

I have bought this forward in the hope that this tanslation question from some time ago doesn't go unanswered. I think with the wonderful help available by the very nice people who do translate, something may be learned of this very interesting sword, even if it is just a phrase or two.

Gav
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 09:01 PM   #12
Zifir
Member
 
Zifir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 226
Default

Hi,
The first inscription is easy: La feta illa Ali la seyfe illa Zulfikar (There is no hero like Ali, there is no sword like Zulfikar)

I will look at the second inscription when I go back home next week, presently I have to use a 10" screen notebook which becomes quite annoying when it comes to deciphering arabic inscriptions.
Zifir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2010, 10:51 AM   #13
Kurt
Member
 
Kurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 175
Send a message via ICQ to Kurt Send a message via AIM to Kurt
Default This is a Pala from Algeria.

Hi ,

I'm sure this sword comes from Algeria.
See:
Splendeur thes arms Orientales.
Figure 62
Kurt
Kurt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2010, 01:56 AM   #14
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,413
Default Comments

Thanks Gents for bringing some more life to these old warriors.
I find them most interesting.

Gav
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2014, 01:50 AM   #15
ArmsAndAntiques
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 80
Default

And to resurrect an old thread, I'd like to point our attention to the recent Bob Hales publication, pg. 218, #538, where I believe this exact sword may have originated some years ago. Described by Mr. Hales as:

"An exceptionally rare Ottoman judicial sword, it has a watered blade, recurved and massively swollen towards the tip. It has a typically Algerian hilt made without a crosspiece and fitted with two-piece horn grips and a small silver shell device. See no. 537. It retains its leather scabbard fitted with engraved silver mounts; most of the back edge of the scabbard has a hinged silver cover to admit the extraordinary shaped blade. 18th or early 19th C."
ArmsAndAntiques is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2014, 01:14 AM   #16
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,413
Default

Mr Morgan did travel a lot with his wife and likely bought the sword from Bob Hales shop on one of his many trips abroad as he did discuss several other purchases he made abroad that were also sold when his collection was auctioned.

Perhaps Bob recalls Mr Morgan's visit?

Gavin
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.