Crown Over TG Thomas Gill?

Bryce · 14th June 2022, 10:20 PM

G'day GC,
In terms of dating your sword, my best guess would be 1770's. By the 1780's Thomas Gill was marking his swords with his "Warranted Never To Fail" slogan. I have an early Gill sword. I will have to look under the langets to make sure it doesn't have a crown over TG mark. To be absolutely sure we need to find one marked with both Gill and the crown TG mark.
Cheers,
Bryce

Hotspur · 15th June 2022, 04:05 PM

Thanks guys. Apparently this sword has circulated enough that there had been discussion on the mark and Chris Allen has commented that the mark might also appear on blade tangs as well.

Continuing on the timeline sidebar, I guess we would assume the blade would have been produced by Thomas II but it seems weird to me that Mark Cloke's first page linked doesn't list him as a swordmaker in the early trade directories.

I suppose I need to get the rest of that article.

I don't have many resources on English makers, aside from the later trade with the US.

Cheers
GC

Bryce · 15th June 2022, 09:25 PM

G'day GC,
There is a fair bit of information about Thomas Gill II in Richard Dellar's book "The British Cavalry Sword 1788-1912". He was born in 1744 and died in 1801. According to Richard Dellar, the first record of him in business is in a 1767 trade directory where he is listed as a file cutter and tool maker. He submitted swords to the Board of Ordnance in 1779, so was making swords at least as early as this. The first time he appears in a trade directory as a sword maker was 1783.

Here is a photo of the Crown TG mark on a tang. There are probably many more Crown TG marked swords out there, but the stamp is on the tang so we can't see it. I checked my sword and there is no mark visible on the ricasso.
Cheers,
Bryce

Hotspur · 16th June 2022, 03:37 PM

Thanks Bryce!

15th June 2022, 09:25 PM	#3
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 174	G'day GC, There is a fair bit of information about Thomas Gill II in Richard Dellar's book "The British Cavalry Sword 1788-1912". He was born in 1744 and died in 1801. According to Richard Dellar, the first record of him in business is in a 1767 trade directory where he is listed as a file cutter and tool maker. He submitted swords to the Board of Ordnance in 1779, so was making swords at least as early as this. The first time he appears in a trade directory as a sword maker was 1783. Here is a photo of the Crown TG mark on a tang. There are probably many more Crown TG marked swords out there, but the stamp is on the tang so we can't see it. I checked my sword and there is no mark visible on the ricasso. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

14th June 2022, 10:20 PM	#1
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 174	G'day GC, In terms of dating your sword, my best guess would be 1770's. By the 1780's Thomas Gill was marking his swords with his "Warranted Never To Fail" slogan. I have an early Gill sword. I will have to look under the langets to make sure it doesn't have a crown over TG mark. To be absolutely sure we need to find one marked with both Gill and the crown TG mark. Cheers, Bryce

15th June 2022, 04:05 PM	#2
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 492	Thanks guys. Apparently this sword has circulated enough that there had been discussion on the mark and Chris Allen has commented that the mark might also appear on blade tangs as well. Continuing on the timeline sidebar, I guess we would assume the blade would have been produced by Thomas II but it seems weird to me that Mark Cloke's first page linked doesn't list him as a swordmaker in the early trade directories. I suppose I need to get the rest of that article. I don't have many resources on English makers, aside from the later trade with the US. Cheers GC

16th June 2022, 03:37 PM	#4
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 492	Thanks Bryce!