Ganja !

[David]

A very interesting discussion so far. Like Alan i have chosen not to vote on this issue. Though i do suspect that the gonjo originally had a practical reason, new evidience could prove otherwise.
I would like to bring up the realated question of gonjo iras blades. Clearly there are rather old keris sajen that have this feature, though these blades 1) Don't have a very much length or thickness at the "gonjo" and 2) Were made for talismanic use so that thickness at the gonjo to absorb shock of the strike was not a a concern.
In previous discussions i have had with Alan i came away with the understanding that non-sajen gonjo iras blades don't seem to appear until somewhere around the 16th century (is that correct?). I wonder if by this time spiritual attribution had been assigned to various aspects of the blade. I have an early 19thC gonjo iras blade in my collection. I would assume that these spiritual applications would probably have been incorporated into the culture by then. So i wonder what this might mean in terms of these spiritual concepts of this part of the blade to the owner of a gonjo iras blade. Why would he want to have such a blade? In discussions i have had with Alan i came away with the impression that gonjo iras blades were probably made this way as a cost cutting method, but i am having difficulty reconciling this reason with the understanding that the seperate gonjo did indeed come to be an important mystical component of the keris. Certainly i have seen a number of low end keris with this feature (which is on the whole rare), but i have also seen a few very well made full ricikan example which don't appear to be cutting costs in their construction. So i must wonder if there is not some other purpose for this feature, perhaps some spiritual component. As i stated, gonjo iras blades are relatively rare, and if it was a cost saving measure i would expect to see more of them.

[A. G. Maisey]

As to exactly when a normal keris that was gonjo iras first appeared, all I can say is that I have never seen a really old one.

16th century?

yeah, maybe---also maybe not.

Further, we seldom see gonjo iras blades from Jawa.South Sumatera, Peninsula---other places,yeah, but I cannot recall ever having seen many from Jawa itself.

Cost cutting would be a reasonable, pragmatic explanation, and looked at logically, completely defensible.

However---I could construct a very elegant esoteric reason for the construction of the gonjo iras blade.Only problem with that is, it would be my construct using 20th century Javanese philosophical arguments. I do not know of anything in any literature older than probably the last quarter of the 19th century that I could call on to support my esoteric construct.

The simple fact of the matter is this:-

making up a story to explain anything is very easy;

believing things that make one feel comfortable is also very easy;

inventing reasons that are in accord with one's personal beliefs, or what one wants to believe others have believed in the past is very easy;

what is not at all easy is to find hard evidence, or to build a logical argument based on indirect evidence, that will give strong support to a position.

If for argument's sake,sufficient people hold the belief that the gonjo iras form was specifically designed to represent a perfect union of the male and the female, and thus has the tuah of strengthening a marriage, which in turn strengthens the community, and leads to both worldly and spiritual wealth, then, for those people who believe this, this is something true and real.Because these people believe this, it will likely have the designated effect for these people.

However--- if we set out to try to find evidence that this was indeed the reason behind the construction of the first examples of this form, we might have a very, very difficult job in front of us.

Never lose sight of the fact that as well as being a royal work of art, a symbol of power, a mystical icon, the keris was also an item of trade that was traded all over SE Asia.

Not all men are equal : not all keris are equal.

What I am saying here is that anybody can believe whatever they wish to believe. That is an individual's right. But if we want evidential proof, or we want a supportive logical argument for that belief---well, that's an entirely different basket of fruit.

[Alam Shah]

Opps! I've took a long break to write my comment and later found Alan Maisey's update. Interesting comments and points.

Some community (outside Java) believed that an enpowered 'ganja iras' blade could circumvent and penetrate an opponent's defences, warrior mystic magic (if any), and thus making the opponent more vulnerable. Perhaps just another story.

I'll need to look-up for info to support this, maybe it's in Skeat's.

[Rick]

Alan, I find this interesting :

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/PBXIIcalonan.html

Judging by this picture the gonjo is cut from the blank then and shaped along with the rest of the keris?
Am I correct?

Is all the work after this point cold work ?

[A. G. Maisey]

In that foto what we are looking at is just the forging for the blade, the gonjo is a separate forging. There are a number of ways it can be produced:- a piece of the pamor before the core in welded in can be cut off and forged to make a gonjo forging; the same thing can be done after the core is forged in; a separate forging entirely can be produced, sometimes plain iron, sometimes with a miniaturisation of the blade pamor, sometimes with a different pamor.

Yes, in the making of the blade, all the work after the forging has been produced is cold work; you actually carve the blade from that forging. However, at some points in the making you do need to go back to the forge and use heat to create what you set out to create.

[VVV]

I have had several e-mail discussions with Alan Maisey on the "what came first" issue on the ganja.

After this correspondence I have now been convinced and also believe that it first was a physical construction and then later the metaphysical was added.

Fair is fair...

Michael

[jagabuwana]

Error. Deleted.

[Alam Shah]

I had a feeling that the 'ganja iras' question would pop-up, true enough.
I believe there are quite a few of us here, who do have 'ganja iras' blades. However, the age of these pieces doesn't go back very far. Most are 19th century or later.

David, I agree with points 1) and 2).

From my limited observation, I found ganja iras pieces, more common to Sumatra areas than any other regions.

My 2 examples of a ganja iras blades. Both est. to be 19th century blades.
http://alamshah.fotopic.net/p32019280.html
http://alamshah.fotopic.net/p32021340.html

Regarding the notion that "gonjo iras blades were probably made this way as a cost cutting method", can this be elaborated why? Because if this is so, then we would be seeing many of this sort of blades.

Originally Posted by David

I wonder if by this time spiritual attribution had been assigned to various aspects of the blade. So i wonder what this might mean in terms of these spiritual concepts of this part of the blade to the owner of a gonjo iras blade. Why would he want to have such a blade?

I wonder too...

Originally Posted by David

...the seperate gonjo did indeed come to be an important mystical component of the keris.

I believe so, too. At least from certain Sumatran, Riau and Peninsular esoteric beliefs. Keris outside Java did evolved and have (and still have) its own interpretation, different from the Javanese belief system.