Unknown sword. Cuban, philippines?

carlos · 9th February 2019, 11:23 AM

This is one of my last adquisition, 39 inc of total Length.
Im not sure about origin and I can,t identified the mark in the blade ( horse).
Seems filipino. Maybe cuban sword ...
Thanks in advance
Carlos

ariel · 9th February 2019, 12:01 PM

I think you might be correct: looks like one of the multitudinous forms of Spanish " colonial" swords. Spanish colonies were spread from Philippines to North Africa to the Americas, each acquiring its own general concepts and further mutating into a variety of patterns.

Sajen · 9th February 2019, 01:40 PM

Hello Carlos,

I strongly doubt that it is Philippine. I would guess a South American origin.

Best regards,
Detlef

Jim McDougall · 10th February 2019, 01:10 AM

Spanish colonial anomalies!!
The infamous 'Berber' sabres, which have haunted these pages for nearly decades, presented a curious hilt variation back in 2007 which this hilt reminded me of (attach.)

While the blade on this 2007 example is one of the British 1796 cavalry blades and overall seems one of the familiar 'Berber' sabres but with a distinctly different hilt. It was suggested to me by an authority on Indonesian and Malaysian weapons this was likely from those regions. It seemed to recall the 'parang' in the gestalt of the hilt.

While outside the Philippines 'neighborhood' which would account for the interloping of one of these blades typically known on the Spanish colonial (Cuban. Central American) being present...…..it does seem that blades from highly incongruent places ended up in these contexts. Attached are two parang hilted blades which are of kaskara form from Sudan.

This 'S' hilted example hanger seems to have a parang type hilt, but in overall character does seem from the 'Americas' . The stamped mark resembles the kinds of outfitter/importer types seen in the Caribbean regions.

I have often wondered just how much cross diffusion was brought FROM the Philippines and these areas back to Cuba and Central America. It was always curious to me that the machete type 'Berber' sabres often had their blade tips reprofiled to resemble those of the kampilan .

Influences travel more than one direction......and the Spanish Main was a heavily trafficked conduit.

Jim McDougall · 10th February 2019, 01:29 AM

With regard to the cross influence comments in my previous post......the so called Berber sabres, which we now know were from Cuban/Dominican contexts (later seen in Spanish Morocco 1920s)……….often had reprofiled cavalry blades with a tip that had a resemblance to those of the kampilan from Philippines and environs.
The Moro kampilan is shown to illustrate possible influence, though the Spanish version is of course less elaborate.

David · 10th February 2019, 03:22 AM

Maybe it's just me Jim, but i see no similarity whatsoever, either in the tip or over all blade profile, between this Berber saber and a kampilan. Am i missing something?

9th February 2019, 11:23 AM	#1
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 731	Unknown sword. Cuban, philippines? This is one of my last adquisition, 39 inc of total Length. Im not sure about origin and I can,t identified the mark in the blade ( horse). Seems filipino. Maybe cuban sword ... Thanks in advance Carlos Attached Images

10th February 2019, 01:10 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,745	Spanish colonial anomalies!! The infamous 'Berber' sabres, which have haunted these pages for nearly decades, presented a curious hilt variation back in 2007 which this hilt reminded me of (attach.) While the blade on this 2007 example is one of the British 1796 cavalry blades and overall seems one of the familiar 'Berber' sabres but with a distinctly different hilt. It was suggested to me by an authority on Indonesian and Malaysian weapons this was likely from those regions. It seemed to recall the 'parang' in the gestalt of the hilt. While outside the Philippines 'neighborhood' which would account for the interloping of one of these blades typically known on the Spanish colonial (Cuban. Central American) being present...…..it does seem that blades from highly incongruent places ended up in these contexts. Attached are two parang hilted blades which are of kaskara form from Sudan. This 'S' hilted example hanger seems to have a parang type hilt, but in overall character does seem from the 'Americas' . The stamped mark resembles the kinds of outfitter/importer types seen in the Caribbean regions. I have often wondered just how much cross diffusion was brought FROM the Philippines and these areas back to Cuba and Central America. It was always curious to me that the machete type 'Berber' sabres often had their blade tips reprofiled to resemble those of the kampilan . Influences travel more than one direction......and the Spanish Main was a heavily trafficked conduit. Attached Images

10th February 2019, 01:29 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,745	With regard to the cross influence comments in my previous post......the so called Berber sabres, which we now know were from Cuban/Dominican contexts (later seen in Spanish Morocco 1920s)……….often had reprofiled cavalry blades with a tip that had a resemblance to those of the kampilan from Philippines and environs. The Moro kampilan is shown to illustrate possible influence, though the Spanish version is of course less elaborate. Attached Images

9th February 2019, 12:01 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think you might be correct: looks like one of the multitudinous forms of Spanish " colonial" swords. Spanish colonies were spread from Philippines to North Africa to the Americas, each acquiring its own general concepts and further mutating into a variety of patterns.

9th February 2019, 01:40 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	Hello Carlos, I strongly doubt that it is Philippine. I would guess a South American origin. Best regards, Detlef

10th February 2019, 03:22 AM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	Maybe it's just me Jim, but i see no similarity whatsoever, either in the tip or over all blade profile, between this Berber saber and a kampilan. Am i missing something?