Bosnian Bichaq

[gp]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

This is the only scabbard with a hanging ring. Or I'm wrong?

No, you're not (completely) wrong...as there is a little more than meets the eye to it.
Cold weapons used in the Ottoman Balkans, moreover Bosnia, Albania and Greece would not have a hanging ring as they would be carried in traditional scarf, wrapped around a man's waist, which functions as a belt.

The one you are refering to is more a "show" piece of a rich merchant or an aristocratic of a lower rank, or a lady's dagger (as can be found in Serbia between 1860-1900).
Serbia were from approx. 1862 pan-Slavism turned their eye more to the west than the Ottoman east.
Hence influence and contact in these border erea's with Austria, Hungaria and their Slav brethren ( Russia and others like the sokol movements ) would cause the introduction of other practical ideas and fashion as f.i. some of these rings.

[Ren Ren]

Thank you! The hanging ring (or lack thereof) is an important part of the scabbard design. But the back of the scabbard is not often seen in the photo.

[gp]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

Thank you! The hanging ring (or lack thereof) is an important part of the scabbard design. But the back of the scabbard is not often seen in the photo.

additional: for the more richer ones, a leather belt was an option. Multiple functions:
1. to protect the clothes when on display for offical celebrations and occassions
2. support carrying plural weapons ( pistols, bichaqs and yataghans)
3. provide support and relief of the total weight
4. comfort when riding a horse ( and avoid risk losing a valuable weapon)

@Detlef: see, a nice example of a yataghan without the fancy decoration of coral and stones but simple handle of metal and bone only

[Ian]

Originally Posted by gp

additional: for the more richer ones, a leather belt was an option. Multiple functions:
1. to protect the clothes when on display for offical celebrations and occassions
2. support carrying plural weapons ( pistols, bichaqs and yataghans)
3. provide support and relief of the total weight
4. comfort when riding a horse ( and avoid risk losing a valuable weapon)

@Detlef: see, a nice example of a yataghan without the fancy decoration of coral and stones but simple handle of metal and bone only

Gp, I could be wrong but the hilt on that yataghan looks like ivory to me. Very nice tooling on the leather pouch and belt.

[gp]

Originally Posted by Ian

Gp, I could be wrong but the hilt on that yataghan looks like ivory to me. Very nice tooling on the leather pouch and belt.

Hello Ian,

it could well be an ivory one. If your expertise determines it as ivory I shall not contradict. Most of the Balkan yataghans (this one is from Dalmatia) were made from buffalo or ox bone but a few of ivory. My knowledge of the latter is very limited.
Indeed quite some craftmanship on the leather but that has a long tradition in that region ( as with their filigree)

[gp]

although I do not prefer damaged daggers, an exception if one stumbles on something rare or not often found like this Bosnian dagger

lenght dagger 20,8 cm
Blade : 11 cm
handle made from horn
silver one-sided writting Foca 1890

sadly one circular ornament missing and a small horn piece as well
the rarity for me is the Foca name and unyataghan-like form of the top of the handle
.
What are your thoughts ?
Should I also repair the missing piece of horn ?

[gp]

notwithstanding the enormous response ....
I decided to leave it as it was and not to repair the broken part by filling / replacing the hole by new horn material.

Another nice Bosnian bichaq, pre Habsburg era is this one with a leather strap, 29 cm long

[gp]

some more pics. What do you think about this bichaq ?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by gp

notwithstanding the enormous response ....
I decided to leave it as it was and not to repair the broken part by filling / replacing the hole by new horn material.

Another nice Bosnian bichaq, pre Habsburg era is this one with a leather strap, 29 cm long

Hi

Why do you think your knife is Bosnian?

I have a small book about Balkan knives.

It is a nice book but 20% of the knives published are not from the Balkans, they are Turkish, Kurdish and North Africans.

Be carefull your post is turning like the Omani khanjar thread: a catamonologue or a monocatalogue...


Kind regards,
Kubur

[gp]

Why my friend?

Simple: based upon literature I quoted and my knowledge...

Before I joined this forum, to my big surprise, concering Bosnian cold weapons, I only read "I think" ....but hardly any comments based upon knowledge...
Nothing of books and publications like the ones I quoted ( between 1880 to the present day).

Try Kozo (270 pages and published in 2010! and in English...). If you would have consulted Kozo and the by my quoted sources, you would have known the answer and not have come up with a premature assumption...

Just check my contributions and the literature I mention. One might learn a little bit

FYI: many publications are not only from the former Yu(goslavia) but also Bulgaria and Romania. A lot in English but when not, the pics and name "Bosna" will tell you the answer.Even the ones in cyrillic...

Also the much refered Elgood here...got most of his Balkan knowledge from a Serbian lady who was and still is leading when it comes down to Balkan cold weapons knowledge: she wrote 3 books! Guess a few to no one here know her name

To give you one criterium: the decoration on top of the blade... But obviously that's not the only one, more criteria are present...

My knowledge on other arms is virtually zero, so I do cherish and treasure the comments as I do learn a lot but on Bosnian cold weapons I dare say few here can match my knowledge. No disrespect intended

My intentions were pure; to share my knowledge and educate folks here. If that offends you, I am sorry and apologize for that inconvenience and shall refrain from entering further comments and leave it gladly up to you and other big shots to advise and judge on Balkan arms ☼☺☼ Nema problema as they say in Bosna

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by gp

My intentions were pure; to share my knowledge and educate folks here.

Your thread is very useful and informative, we are all obsessed by something. No worries here...

But we are all the same and a forum is for discussion.

Being from Bosnia or the Balkans doesn't make you more knowledgeable than others.

Originally Posted by gp

Try Kozo (270 pages and published in 2010! and in English...). If you would have consulted Kozo and the by my quoted sources, you would have known the answer and not have come up with a premature assumption...

It is the book that I have Kozo!
It's a nice book but as I said 20% of the knives are not from the Balkans. So if it is your reference then you might be mistaken.

Originally Posted by gp

To give you one criterium: the decoration on top of the blade... But obviously that's not the only one, more criteria are present...

My knowledge on other arms is virtually zero, so I do cherish and treasure the comments as I do learn a lot but on Bosnian cold weapons

This is a good example, the decoration on top of the blade can be found in many countries of the Ottoman empire.

So as you wrote, your knowledge on other arms is virtually zero...
My friendly advice would be: read on other countries otherwise all you will see in the Balkans will be from the Balkans...
Many Russians and Caucasians are doing the same mistake.

[gp]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Your thread is very useful and informative, we are all obsessed by something. No worries here...

But we are all the same and a forum is for discussion.

Being from Bosnia or the Balkans doesn't make you more knowledgeable than others.



It is the book that I have Kozo!
It's a nice book but as I said 20% of the knives are not from the Balkans. So if it is your reference then you might be mistaken.



This is a good example, the decoration on top of the blade can be found in many countries of the Ottoman empire.

So as you wrote, your knowledge on other arms is virtually zero...
My friendly advice would be: read on other countries otherwise all you will see in the Balkans will be from the Balkans...
Many Russians and Caucasians are doing the same mistake.

I am neither from Bosnia nor the Balkans, please do read my contributions before you judge...
again stop assuming & judging prematurely

Nor do you comment the other books and publications I mentioned ...
Pick out 1 item to prove you're correct.
Nice discussion technique for discrediting some one (actually 1 of the 9 manipulation techniques in psychology) but doesn't impress me ...

I leave the stage to you if that makes you feel good and a big boy

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by gp

My intentions were pure; to share my knowledge and educate folks here.

Thank you for the interesting information, sources and examples of Bosnian bichaqs that you share here.
It is always very interesting and useful to learn new things from a person who is specially and in depth dealing with a certain narrow topic, and it would probably be very good if the discussions in your topics were more active.
I will venture give the conversation some impetus:
I think that the decoration of the scabbard and handle of this knife a typical for Bosnian bichak zigzag hatching may refer it to this family.

[gp]

a nice piece of hand craft and art is this filigree (sterling) dagger belt buckle I recently purchased.

From filigree perspective it looks like Dalmatian, Bosnian or Montenegrin.
Also similar like the type of sterling brooch I found in Sarajevo, Kotor or Dubrovnik in the 1980ies .

This one looks the same, although the brooches were without the 2 dots on the grip. Looking close at the silver dots on the "bichaq" they might indicate as well a Caucasian origin like the grip of a kama / shalta / khanjali ...but these again do not have the curved blade as the Balkan bichaq or Ottoman handzjar... the dots could also be functional as a kind of support / firmness (which makes sense...)

Still a nice piece of art dating back to a wide period of 1880-1960 to hang above the Bosnian kama, bichaq and yataghan