Big British Basket Hilted Sword

Will M · 7th June 2020, 11:22 AM

Lee that is a wonderful basket hilted sword. I do appreciate swords that have been used for more than dress purposes. Possibly someday one will come my way?

ulfberth · 7th June 2020, 01:39 PM

Hi Lee, at first glance I was somehow surprised because the thread tap is more modern, however looking closer I saw the old thread the first few lines are still visible . This is of course a responsible restoration on a beautiful sword.
kind regards
Ulfberth

Lee · 7th June 2020, 03:29 PM

Thank you Gentlemen.

Here are closer-up up views of the threading. I wonder if the obvious diagonal weld line in one of the views indicates material added at the last restoration to 'beef up' the end of the tang so that the same threaded tang button could also be re-threaded inside.

I have also wondered how much of the state of condition that we see in Drummond's drawing published in 1881 was the artist's reconstruction of how he thought this sword had once appeared and how much may be Victorian era restoration that has now perished. There is also evidence that there had been considerable decoration on the forte of the blade that has long been almost completely rubbed away. Further down on each side of the blade there are running wolf marks that I failed to photograph. Published accounts regularly speculate that the 'ail' inscription just beyond the reinforcing rod might be the end of a longer now hidden inscription, but I believe that it was added around the same time as the basket hilt and rods.

ulfberth · 7th June 2020, 03:44 PM

about the obvious diagonal weld line at the end of the tang, im not sure this could also be a line from forging its hard to tell for sure.

Hotspur · 7th June 2020, 10:23 PM

The scarf weld is fairly apparent. There were definitely lathe screw threads of size well before the Victorian age and certainly in the 18th century. If you have, or can borrow some thread gauges (look like notched feeler gauges), a clear match might place it to a standard thread pitch, tpi, etc.

By the mid 18th century, there were some standards for interchangeability.

Cheers
GC

M ELEY · 9th June 2020, 12:11 AM

Beautiful basket hilt, Lee! Thanks for posting it in regards to our questions of threaded tangs on that other post. One must also remember that basket swords were definitely one of those types that were handed down and refitted over many centuries. In Culloden: The Swords and the Sorrows, an extensive collection of baskets from the time of the '45', we see among the large grouping all manner of repairs, restructuring of the basket, removal of some bars to 'open the hilt', forward quillons (hand guards) added after 1700, etc. Its good to lock down the time period of when the detachable pommel first came into place.

7th June 2020, 01:39 PM	#2
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 382	Hi Lee, at first glance I was somehow surprised because the thread tap is more modern, however looking closer I saw the old thread the first few lines are still visible . This is of course a responsible restoration on a beautiful sword. kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images

7th June 2020, 03:29 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 898	Thank you Gentlemen. Here are closer-up up views of the threading. I wonder if the obvious diagonal weld line in one of the views indicates material added at the last restoration to 'beef up' the end of the tang so that the same threaded tang button could also be re-threaded inside. I have also wondered how much of the state of condition that we see in Drummond's drawing published in 1881 was the artist's reconstruction of how he thought this sword had once appeared and how much may be Victorian era restoration that has now perished. There is also evidence that there had been considerable decoration on the forte of the blade that has long been almost completely rubbed away. Further down on each side of the blade there are running wolf marks that I failed to photograph. Published accounts regularly speculate that the 'ail' inscription just beyond the reinforcing rod might be the end of a longer now hidden inscription, but I believe that it was added around the same time as the basket hilt and rods. Attached Images

7th June 2020, 11:22 AM	#1
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 390	Lee that is a wonderful basket hilted sword. I do appreciate swords that have been used for more than dress purposes. Possibly someday one will come my way?

7th June 2020, 03:44 PM	#4
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 382	about the obvious diagonal weld line at the end of the tang, im not sure this could also be a line from forging its hard to tell for sure.

7th June 2020, 10:23 PM	#5
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 491	The scarf weld is fairly apparent. There were definitely lathe screw threads of size well before the Victorian age and certainly in the 18th century. If you have, or can borrow some thread gauges (look like notched feeler gauges), a clear match might place it to a standard thread pitch, tpi, etc. By the mid 18th century, there were some standards for interchangeability. Cheers GC

9th June 2020, 12:11 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	Beautiful basket hilt, Lee! Thanks for posting it in regards to our questions of threaded tangs on that other post. One must also remember that basket swords were definitely one of those types that were handed down and refitted over many centuries. In Culloden: The Swords and the Sorrows, an extensive collection of baskets from the time of the '45', we see among the large grouping all manner of repairs, restructuring of the basket, removal of some bars to 'open the hilt', forward quillons (hand guards) added after 1700, etc. Its good to lock down the time period of when the detachable pommel first came into place.