An amalgmation of Europe and Asia, Shamshir

David R · 9th February 2024, 11:58 PM

Looks familiar, and I might have seen it on another forum. I had one like this some years ago, a nice wootz shamshir blade, stuck into a poor casting from a Victorian bandsman's sword.
I let it go, not really knowing what to do with it, I do now, but the sword is long gone.

Jim McDougall · 10th February 2024, 02:54 AM

Ken, thank you for the note in the OP, you know me well

Each sword has its story to tell.

Clearly in form this hilt is of the rather scarce 'model 9' as well described by Udo. As I understand, these were produced 1801-1803 and by BOUTET at Versailles.
I am not familiar enough with French Napoleonic arms to argue for or against this not corresponding to the character of the original examples.......but I have one question.
Why in the world would anyone copy a briquet? these munitions grade weapons are hardly the grade sought by Napoleonic collectors in my thinking. I suppose they're a bit more desirable than the British briquet I bought in the 60s for ten bucks

Then to see this combination of what seems a very high quality Persian blade, even though probably not actually Assad Alllah but one of the subsequent blades using the name (in the manner of the spurious use of the Toledo masters names).

Is it possible that this model briquet might have been produced by another maker/works? following the general design.

Then the question is, what likely French colonial context might his combination have been assembled?

IMO a most attractive and intriguing sword Ken, no wonder you grabbed it!
Easy on the cleaning

the patina really gives it character.

Kmaddock · 12th February 2024, 12:47 PM

[
Easy on the cleaning

the patina really gives it character.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry Jim, I am not a fan if shiny things and the brass will never be cleaned by me .

I might try and bring out the pattern on the blade though as it is very attractive.
Keep well
Ken

Jim McDougall · 12th February 2024, 03:44 PM

Thanks Ken! I guess I have always been adamant on preservation of patina on these old weapons (its the historian in me). In my thinking the patina is a well earned coat of history, rather like the rings in a tree trunk, and worn proudly by these venerable old warriors. Sorry, off on a tangent there

thought I was writing a romance novel .

Understand on the blade, which is amazing. I would defer to the experts, but while the Assad Allah cartouche suggests a Persian trade blade, this clearly has remarkable watering, and it seems unusual for a 'trade' blade to have all that 'activity' on the spine. This might well be a more important blade than expected. If I may suggest getting hold of Philip Tom who typically writes on ethnographic, but is the true master of restoring blades.

All the best
Jim

Kmaddock · 12th February 2024, 04:10 PM

Ill take some better images tonight and if you have Philips Toms user name I might send him a link to the thread
Would that be OK?,
Thanks
Ken

I am not sure though which way is up or down on the writing though?

Ian · 14th February 2024, 05:09 AM

Ken,

Philip's name here is simply "Philip." He is a very approachable person. Drop him a PM.

Ian

9th February 2024, 11:58 PM	#1
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,053	Looks familiar, and I might have seen it on another forum. I had one like this some years ago, a nice wootz shamshir blade, stuck into a poor casting from a Victorian bandsman's sword. I let it go, not really knowing what to do with it, I do now, but the sword is long gone.

10th February 2024, 02:54 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Ken, thank you for the note in the OP, you know me well Each sword has its story to tell. Clearly in form this hilt is of the rather scarce 'model 9' as well described by Udo. As I understand, these were produced 1801-1803 and by BOUTET at Versailles. I am not familiar enough with French Napoleonic arms to argue for or against this not corresponding to the character of the original examples.......but I have one question. Why in the world would anyone copy a briquet? these munitions grade weapons are hardly the grade sought by Napoleonic collectors in my thinking. I suppose they're a bit more desirable than the British briquet I bought in the 60s for ten bucks Then to see this combination of what seems a very high quality Persian blade, even though probably not actually Assad Alllah but one of the subsequent blades using the name (in the manner of the spurious use of the Toledo masters names). Is it possible that this model briquet might have been produced by another maker/works? following the general design. Then the question is, what likely French colonial context might his combination have been assembled? IMO a most attractive and intriguing sword Ken, no wonder you grabbed it! Easy on the cleaning the patina really gives it character.

12th February 2024, 12:47 PM	#3
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 533	[ Easy on the cleaning the patina really gives it character.[/QUOTE] Don't worry Jim, I am not a fan if shiny things and the brass will never be cleaned by me . I might try and bring out the pattern on the blade though as it is very attractive. Keep well Ken

12th February 2024, 03:44 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Thanks Ken! I guess I have always been adamant on preservation of patina on these old weapons (its the historian in me). In my thinking the patina is a well earned coat of history, rather like the rings in a tree trunk, and worn proudly by these venerable old warriors. Sorry, off on a tangent there thought I was writing a romance novel . Understand on the blade, which is amazing. I would defer to the experts, but while the Assad Allah cartouche suggests a Persian trade blade, this clearly has remarkable watering, and it seems unusual for a 'trade' blade to have all that 'activity' on the spine. This might well be a more important blade than expected. If I may suggest getting hold of Philip Tom who typically writes on ethnographic, but is the true master of restoring blades. All the best Jim

12th February 2024, 04:10 PM	#5
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 533	Ill take some better images tonight and if you have Philips Toms user name I might send him a link to the thread Would that be OK?, Thanks Ken I am not sure though which way is up or down on the writing though?

14th February 2024, 05:09 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,042	Ken, Philip's name here is simply "Philip." He is a very approachable person. Drop him a PM. Ian