A large 19th century flintlock pistol

Jim McDougall · 7th February 2021, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Jim, i will not further soak the thread with unrelated (or colateral) issues. I will therefore send you e-mail on the subject

.

Well noted Fernando, and thank you for sending me details on activity in Liege where indeed certain weapon forms were commissioned and would have been marked at factory. Its always interesting to see the many aspects that surround a topic even when not directly on topic, the learning curve never ends!!

M ELEY · 8th February 2021, 01:56 AM

Just another interesting tidbit going on during the time these pistols started hitting the market. Hey, I gotta get in my pirate barb whenever I can, right!

Just saying that these pistols, if funneled through Dutch channels, might have ended up in all manner of hands!

https://www.napoleon-series.org/mili.../c_danish.html

corrado26 · 8th February 2021, 09:27 AM

here an intersting offer of the Bannermann catalogue of 1925

M ELEY · 8th February 2021, 03:15 PM

I've handled an old Bannerman catalog many years ago and actually took a tour on the Hudson, sailing right past the remnants of his castle complex. His catalogs actually contained a lot of amazing items on the cheap back in the day! Scottish swords, m1796's by the dozen! Even ethnographic stuff! You just don't see those kind of numbers today! If I could only step back in time-

corrado26 · 8th February 2021, 03:43 PM

Don't forget: The last shirt has no pockets!

Pukka Bundook · 8th February 2021, 04:11 PM

Dear Fernando,

The proof marks are as you show in the catatlog, but this does not mean that the earlier mark disappeared, it was merely retained for muzzle -loading arms, up to at least 1981.
The one you show in the photo is interesting, as it has the Crowned ELG mark, for military arms, Plus, the Crowned R for Rifled arms.
V good to see them both !

Kind regards,
Richard.

fernando · 8th February 2021, 05:26 PM

Dear Richard,

From a well established French house i could read in the original language what, being translated reads as follows;

The ELG marking is the regulatory hallmark of the Liège proofhouse. This punch has evolved over time. These three letters were inscribed in a vertical oval between 1811 and 1893 and then still (puis dans toujour) in a vertical oval but surmounted by a crown from 1893 to the present day.

By reading the term 'evolved' and 'still in a vertical oval but surmounted by a crown', i inferred that the previous symbol ceased being applied. I am ready to say that i was driven to the wrong conclusion, once you have different evidence.
All Belgian guns i have had would have been made before the 1890's.

8th February 2021, 01:56 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,075	Danish pirates! Just another interesting tidbit going on during the time these pistols started hitting the market. Hey, I gotta get in my pirate barb whenever I can, right! Just saying that these pistols, if funneled through Dutch channels, might have ended up in all manner of hands! https://www.napoleon-series.org/mili.../c_danish.html

8th February 2021, 09:27 AM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,171	here an intersting offer of the Bannermann catalogue of 1925 Attached Images

8th February 2021, 05:26 PM	#7
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,645	Standing corrected ... Dear Richard, From a well established French house i could read in the original language what, being translated reads as follows; The ELG marking is the regulatory hallmark of the Liège proofhouse. This punch has evolved over time. These three letters were inscribed in a vertical oval between 1811 and 1893 and then still (puis dans toujour) in a vertical oval but surmounted by a crown from 1893 to the present day. By reading the term 'evolved' and 'still in a vertical oval but surmounted by a crown', i inferred that the previous symbol ceased being applied. I am ready to say that i was driven to the wrong conclusion, once you have different evidence. All Belgian guns i have had would have been made before the 1890's.

8th February 2021, 03:15 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,075	I've handled an old Bannerman catalog many years ago and actually took a tour on the Hudson, sailing right past the remnants of his castle complex. His catalogs actually contained a lot of amazing items on the cheap back in the day! Scottish swords, m1796's by the dozen! Even ethnographic stuff! You just don't see those kind of numbers today! If I could only step back in time-

8th February 2021, 03:43 PM	#5
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,171	Don't forget: The last shirt has no pockets!

8th February 2021, 04:11 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Fernando, The proof marks are as you show in the catatlog, but this does not mean that the earlier mark disappeared, it was merely retained for muzzle -loading arms, up to at least 1981. The one you show in the photo is interesting, as it has the Crowned ELG mark, for military arms, Plus, the Crowned R for Rifled arms. V good to see them both ! Kind regards, Richard.