THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MOROCCAN AND A ZANZIBARI NIMCHA.

Gonzalo G · 5th August 2017, 07:08 AM

It is a pity that the historical evidence does not support this complicated hypothesis (better call it assumption). Swords with cuphilts, laces, circular knuckleguards, protective rings, etc., were carried by a baldric on horse, without problem. See the way in wich the Spaniards carried their rapiers: they used baldrics, and the swords can be accomodated by the lenght of the baldric. I think that the form of the knuckleguard of the Moroccan Nimcha was a matter of fashion, though I admit that the rounded knuckleguard allows for a more easy grasp.

kronckew · 5th August 2017, 09:29 AM

the french and other countries were also fond of carrying them on baldrics. rapiers were not the light fencing foils or epees you see in old films, they were as heavy as many other sword types. a baldric puts the weight more comfortably on the shoulder. both belt and baldric types were used on horse, with the rapiers and wider bladed versions favoured by the military of the day.

i've always found it odd that many rapier carrying arrangements had a strap running diagonally from the front of the sword frog to a mount on the other side of the belt buckle across your crotch. an affectation not found on arabian sword hangers, or later european ones for that matter. 'the town guard' and 'graf pappenheim' included for illustration.

fernando · 5th August 2017, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... i've always found it odd that many rapier carrying arrangements had a strap running diagonally from the front of the sword frog to a mount on the other side of the belt buckle across your crotch...

Wasn't that to prevent your carrier from falling back, so that when you seat it conflicts with your back section ... or your horse croup ?

.

kronckew · 6th August 2017, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Wasn't that to prevent your carrier from falling back, so that when you seat it conflicts with your back section ... or your horse croup ?

.

ah, the X'd strap is the continuation of the broader strap from the forked scabbard bucklings over the shoulder and then thinning down to it's own adjustment buckle and thin strap till it rejoins the buckled area - see the 'french' baldric in the sketch. (i fell into the same trap initially

.) the belted versions in the othe three panels of the sketch show the belt with the buckle and two support brasses with loops. the main leather buckled frog bit hooks to the one on your left side, a smaller strap continues from the front of this frog to the hooking place on the right side of the belt buckle - except for the german style one which is on the left. some illustrations to help on the belted ones, museum display and an antique belt, and a portrait with a similar belt. (the white blotch looks like a piece of adhesive tape defacing the painting.)

i suspect that it's to keep the hilt up, as the balance is so close to the front it has a tendency to seesaw down w/o the strap as you move . the german style with it's attachment on the same side of the main buckle as the other makes more sense tho. maybe 'cus i'm germanic myself

, it does seem to be more horse friendly (see graf above). you only have one buckle to undo to take off the german one, the others you need to unbuckle and unhook the front strap. german efficiency.

the Tbourida riders as i mentioned above carry their nimchas on a baldric with the hilt down and the pointy end angled UP sticking above their shoulders to suit their way of drawing the sword. different strokes for different folks. with the baldric, dismounted they can adjust that to suit more easily than the european carry methods.

fernando · 6th August 2017, 12:32 PM

What a comprehensive approach, Wayne .
Still a pity my shorter version, much easier to digest

, not being (necessarily) correct

.
... All in all this is a shceme to prevent the sword carrier from foooling around, right ?

kronckew · 6th August 2017, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

What a comprehensive approach, Wayne .
Still a pity my shorter version, much easier to digest

, not being (necessarily) correct

.
... All in all this is a shceme to prevent the sword carrier from foooling around, right ?

correct.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th August 2017, 05:01 PM

Artwork. THE MOROCCAN NIMCHA.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th August 2017, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

It is a pity that the historical evidence does not support this complicated hypothesis (better call it assumption). Swords with cuphilts, laces, circular knuckleguards, protective rings, etc., were carried by a baldric on horse, without problem. See the way in wich the Spaniards carried their rapiers: they used baldrics, and the swords can be accomodated by the lenght of the baldric. I think that the form of the knuckleguard of the Moroccan Nimcha was a matter of fashion, though I admit that the rounded knuckleguard allows for a more easy grasp.

Although the clear historical evidence has somehow escaped your attention it is well documented that the Sword of the Prophet was carried in this manner. I do not speak of cuphilts in this discussion... but of the Moroccan Nimcha (an Islamic creation)with a distinct lineage via the Berber situation of Zinette back through the centuries to the 7th.

I didn't mention anything about the rounded Zanzibari knuckle-guard being an easier grasp in fact I note the difference since the broad neck strap seen at #75 above pulls the Moroccan sword higher so that it lodges firmly at the left rib-cage area held more steady by the squared off knuckleguard base, broad flat horse-head pommel, and quilons.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th August 2017, 08:38 AM

Why is it that the Moroccan variant has a peened stud often ornately decorated whilst the Zanzibar style usually shows a Turtle shaped peened stud format; entirely different?

If the sword evolved from the Moroccan (and it could hardly have come from somewhere else) without a peened stud that also means it probably arrived with no blade, no scabbard and no guards... Did it arrive as a box full/shipload of horsehead hilts only?

Blade manufacture was in place of course in Indian theatres as well as across Africa with European trade blades and in Yemen at Hadramaut etc The Omani Zanzibari craftsmen were perfectly placed and equiped to turn out scabbards and refit imported blades and home grown quilons probably from a Moroccan example but altering the knuckleguard as noted earlier...

As and when the Zanzibari Nimcha bounced into neighboring countries the hilt changed to reflect local customs ... As noted previously the ornate Omani Ivory Hilted gold adorned hilt fulfilled the requirement for a Court/VIP/ Sea Merchants sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

5th August 2017, 09:29 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,154	the french and other countries were also fond of carrying them on baldrics. rapiers were not the light fencing foils or epees you see in old films, they were as heavy as many other sword types. a baldric puts the weight more comfortably on the shoulder. both belt and baldric types were used on horse, with the rapiers and wider bladed versions favoured by the military of the day. i've always found it odd that many rapier carrying arrangements had a strap running diagonally from the front of the sword frog to a mount on the other side of the belt buckle across your crotch. an affectation not found on arabian sword hangers, or later european ones for that matter. 'the town guard' and 'graf pappenheim' included for illustration. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 5th August 2017 at 09:58 AM.

5th August 2017, 07:08 AM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	It is a pity that the historical evidence does not support this complicated hypothesis (better call it assumption). Swords with cuphilts, laces, circular knuckleguards, protective rings, etc., were carried by a baldric on horse, without problem. See the way in wich the Spaniards carried their rapiers: they used baldrics, and the swords can be accomodated by the lenght of the baldric. I think that the form of the knuckleguard of the Moroccan Nimcha was a matter of fashion, though I admit that the rounded knuckleguard allows for a more easy grasp.

6th August 2017, 12:32 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,657	What a comprehensive approach, Wayne . Still a pity my shorter version, much easier to digest , not being (necessarily) correct . ... All in all this is a shceme to prevent the sword carrier from foooling around, right ?

6th August 2017, 05:01 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Artwork. THE MOROCCAN NIMCHA. Attached Images

6th August 2017, 08:38 AM	#9
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Why is it that the Moroccan variant has a peened stud often ornately decorated whilst the Zanzibar style usually shows a Turtle shaped peened stud format; entirely different? If the sword evolved from the Moroccan (and it could hardly have come from somewhere else) without a peened stud that also means it probably arrived with no blade, no scabbard and no guards... Did it arrive as a box full/shipload of horsehead hilts only? Blade manufacture was in place of course in Indian theatres as well as across Africa with European trade blades and in Yemen at Hadramaut etc The Omani Zanzibari craftsmen were perfectly placed and equiped to turn out scabbards and refit imported blades and home grown quilons probably from a Moroccan example but altering the knuckleguard as noted earlier... As and when the Zanzibari Nimcha bounced into neighboring countries the hilt changed to reflect local customs ... As noted previously the ornate Omani Ivory Hilted gold adorned hilt fulfilled the requirement for a Court/VIP/ Sea Merchants sword. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.