Keris bargain

[Anthony G.]

these photo does send shiver down my spine. It looks painful.

[A. G. Maisey]

Gavin & David, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these beautiful photos were all taken during the last 20 years or so? Like, yesterday.

In order to verify that what I have said in previous posts, not only in this thread, but I have posted similar comments previously, we would really need photos from the days of film, probably from pre-1980, as my memory is that before 1990 this highly decorative type of dress was not being made, and most of the more recent examples didn't even use keris blades, they used flat iron, or even thinner material, that was cut into the shape of a keris and the "pamor" pattern was batiked onto the blade.

There is another thing that is worth mentioning too. The dances that are staged in the tourist centres, like Ubud, Kuta, and all around South Bali, are 90% or better for the tourists. To witness the genuine performances you need to get away from the tourist areas. People do not realise just how much the tourist presence has changed Bali. Even the New Year's Eve Ogoh-Ogoh parades have been developed as a tourist attraction. The dance performances that are staged in villages and population centres that are not a part of the "Tourist World" are closer to reality. In these more "grass roots" performances even the keris dancers in the Barong dance use real keris, not ones with blades that have been annealed, and the Legong dancers and Sanghyang Dedari dancers are genuine.

But if you really want to see a real, gut twisting performance you need to go up to Ponorogo in Jawa and see the Reog.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Gavin & Anthony, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these beautiful photos were all taken during the last 20 years or so? Like, yesterday.

In order to verify that what I have said in previous posts, not only in this thread, but I have posted similar comments previously, we would really need photos from the days of film, probably from pre-1980, as my memory is that before 1990 this highly decorative type of dress was not being made, and most of the more recent examples didn't even use keris blades, they used flat iron, or even thinner material, that was cut into the shape of a keris and the "pamor" pattern was batiked onto the blade.

There is another thing that is worth mentioning too. The dances that are staged in the tourist centres, like Ubud, Kuta, and all around South Bali, are 90% or better for the tourists. To witness the genuine performances you need to get away from the tourist areas. People do not realise just how much the tourist presence has changed Bali. Even the New Year's Eve Ogoh-Ogoh parades have been developed as a tourist attraction. The dance performances that are staged in villages and population centres that are not a part of the "Tourist World" are closer to reality. In these more "grass roots" performances even the keris dancers in the Barong dance use real keris, not ones with blades that have been annealed, and the Legong dancers and Sanghyang Dedari dancers are genuine.

But if you really want to see a real, gut twisting performance you need to go up to Ponorogo in Jawa and see the Reog.

[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]Gavin & Anthony, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these beautiful photos were all taken during the last 20 years or so? Like, yesterday.


Hi Alan, good day.

No idea about the photo as it was not posted by me. And thanks for the info about the performance in Bali and Jawa, really useful for me esp. i will visit these places in future.

Hopefully the virus outbreak can be contain soon so that I can visit Indonesia.

[A. G. Maisey]

Ah well Anthony, that's another of my deficiencies uncovered, I never did learn to read very well.

As to when we might get to go to Jawa, Bali and other places in Indonesia. My personal opinion is about two to five years for somebody prepared to take a risk.

I'm in contact with people in Central Jawa, East Jawa and South Bali almost every day, and things over there are in a real mess.

Here in Australia we probably will not see a vaccine until towards the end of next year, and that's if our expectations are realised. That vaccine will perhaps give us a 60% level of protection for a period of around 2 to 3 months.

In Indonesia there is not really any expectation that this contagion will be extinguished in anything like two or three years. So even if the two to three year prediction is more or less realistic, do I want to risk a 40% chance of infection?

I don't think so.

I might get back there for my 90th birthday.

[Marcokeris]

a pic from the book called "Bali" edit in 1941 by Philip Hanson Hiss

[A. G. Maisey]

A nice old photo Marco, but what David wants to see is dress.

We know there are a lot of photos of dancers who are holding keris, but how many dancers are wearing keris, especially the particular style of keris dress that is under discussion?

I really cannot recall having seen any dancers in Bali actually dancing whilst wearing a keris. I might have, most of the dancing that I watched was over 20 years ago, mostly in the 1970's. I must admit, get a bit bored with Balinese performance art these days.

[JustYS]

Got it from ebay: Illustration from Le Petit Journal

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A nice old photo Marco, but what David wants to see is dress.

We know there are a lot of photos of dancers who are holding keris, but how many dancers are wearing keris, especially the particular style of keris dress that is under discussion?

I really cannot recall having seen any dancers in Bali actually dancing whilst wearing a keris. I might have, most of the dancing that I watched was over 20 years ago, mostly in the 1970's. I must admit, get a bit bored with Balinese performance art these days.

True Alan, i would like to see the sheaths used by dancers and actors to truly confirm that they were indeed used by them. However, what i do see in Anthony's 1941 image is again the use of the bondalan hilt form, not the figural hilts that we always see mated to these so-called dancer sheaths.
Here are two more images from famed photographer Henri Cariter-Bresson of the Barong dance from his time in Bali in 1949. Again we see the bondalan form. I cannot say i have ever seen a bondalan hilt matched with these "dancer" sarungs though.
Now this isn't conclusive evidence of course, but then, what are we basing the assumption that these sheaths actually were used by dancers and actors at some time? I don't doubt your remark that you "have seen a couple that came into Australia before WWII", but we can't really take that to the bank, now can we? Have you ever personally seen such dress actually used in Balinese theatre or dance in the past? Do you have access or photographs to these pre-WWII examples of this dress so that we can compare it to the tourist dress that we are assuming developed out of it? I mean, we have examples of keris dress that go back hundreds of years in collections. Surely then older examples of this dress should still exist somewhere. Again, i am not so much doubting their existence, and it makes a certain amount of sense that this dress form didn't just appear out of nowhere in the 1960s and was suddenly adopted for tourist keris, but i would like to see some actual evidence to confirm these suspicions.