Last traditional European sword

[Yvain]

My apologies, I guess my question was not properly worded.


I was wondering what was the last sword used by Europeans / Europeans descent that was NOT a military weapon (ie : regulated / issued).


I know that swords were used in European armies up to WW1 and are still part of some dress uniforms, but I'm actually curious about the civilian side of sword ownership.


From our previous discussion, it seemed to me that the espada ancha / machete could be considered as one of the last non-military sword used by Europeans or Europeans descent, but I'm wondering if there is others, perhaps used more recently.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Yvain

My apologies, I guess my question was not properly worded.


I was wondering what was the last sword used by Europeans / Europeans descent that was NOT a military weapon (ie : regulated / issued).


I know that swords were used in European armies up to WW1 and are still part of some dress uniforms, but I'm actually curious about the civilian side of sword ownership.


From our previous discussion, it seemed to me that the espada ancha / machete could be considered as one of the last non-military sword used by Europeans or Europeans descent, but I'm wondering if there is others, perhaps used more recently.

Dear Yvain, in some distant corners of Europe civilian swords are still in use. Curiously when you do a PhD at the University of Helsinki your doctor’s title entitles you to wear the doctor hat and sword. This is still the practice today.

[Yvain]

Indeed Victrix, I heard that before, interesting tradition! Though I don't think those students are expected to actually use those swords!

[Gonzoadler]

Originally Posted by Yvain

Indeed Victrix, I heard that before, interesting tradition! Though I don't think those students are expected to actually use those swords!

Here in Germany, you still have the tradition of the "Mensur". It is mandatory in so called "pflichtschlagende Verbindungen" (Burschenschaften, Corps, Turnerschaften and others). These are academic fraternities, but they are not comparable with the fraternities in the United States.
The Mensur is a kind of fencing with sharp blades but also clear regulations to prevent very serious injuries.
Two kinds of swords can be used for the Mensur: The "Glockenschläger" (some images shown here: https://markomannia-burschenschaft.de/mensur/) or the "Korbschläger", which is more common and which has a basket-hilt showing the colours of the Verbindung (see attachment).
Of course the construction of these swords follows strict regulations made by the fraternities, but they are totally civilian and in use until today, not only for the Mensur, but also for representative purposes.

[fernando]

The unbelivable Mensur discipline, as seen by Mark Twain

[Gonzoadler]

Originally Posted by fernando

The unbelivable Mensur discipline, as seen by Mark Twain

The text Mark Twain wrote is really interesting and can give people who never seen this old tradition an insight to it. Of course not every Mensur is that spectacular or bloody like in Twain's description.
But I want to add, that a typical Mensur is not a kind of "duel", because the contrahents, called "Paukanten", do (or should) not feel any hostility to each other or the other Verbindung, not before, not during and not after the fight. Because of that, the members of a Verbindung don't say that they fight a Mensur against each other, but together.
Of course there exist academic fencing with a duel-character like the Pro-Patria-Mensur, but they are not standard and not very common.

[fernando]

Many years ago (long before Internet) i watched a documentary in the TV where a bunch of young men fought for a scar; close to each other, wearing goggles, crossing swords at high speed (you can't call it fencing, nor duelling) and looking to get cut; indeed the willing to get themselves a scar was more their goal than inflicting one to their foes.


.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Yvain

My apologies, I guess my question was not properly worded.

I was wondering what was the last sword used by Europeans / Europeans descent that was NOT a military weapon (ie : regulated / issued).

I know that swords were used in European armies up to WW1 and are still part of some dress uniforms, but I'm actually curious about the civilian side of sword ownership.

From our previous discussion, it seemed to me that the espada ancha / machete could be considered as one of the last non-military sword used by Europeans or Europeans descent, but I'm wondering if there is others, perhaps used more recently.

If you are referring to a sword carried for the purpose of self-defence (honour or person) where the wielder likely has some ability with the weapon, then you're probably looking at smallswords of the late 18th and early 19th Century. After that, firearms became more prevalent as they were easier to carry, effective and simpler to use.

The other consideration is sword canes, which I believe were carried into the 20th Century.

Similarly, many Eastern European cultures have their own cultural knives / short swords that were likely openly carried well into the early 20th Century, but I am less familiar with those.

[Yvain]

Thanks Radboud, that's what I'm referring to indeed. The Eastern European lead is interesting, I'll have to look into it deeper!

[kronckew]

More ethnic eastern than European: You may want to search the ethnic forum, as this one is for European 19c and earlier weapons.



The khevsurli (Who consider themselves European) from the mountains of Georgia still use these swords (and bucklers below) for friendly 1st blood duelling sport.


There is a tale of the Khevsurli finally getting word in 1915 that the Tsar was at war, so they all dressed up in their finest mail armour, swords, buckler shields, and flintlocks, and proceeded north to join the Tsar's forces. Sadly, for them, the mountain passes were snowed in and impassible, so they went home again to wait for the passes to clear, only to find for Russia, the war was over.


The last Crusade <-link

[midelburgo]

French academics have and design their own swords.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by midelburgo

French academics have and design their own swords.

[cringe]

[midelburgo]

Originally Posted by Victrix

[cringe]

In a broad sense of the word "sword".

Many years ago, probably they were functional.

The first one above is Costeau...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdeoOLEK9pQ