An antique recent kindjal

ariel · 14th January 2023, 01:32 AM

Can you show the back of the scabbard? Sometimes there may be a telltale mark.

Ren Ren · 14th January 2023, 05:32 AM

According to the style of decor, I can assume that this dagger was made in Dagestan by an Avar master from the village of Gotsatl. Production time - 1980-1990. I agree with ariel, you need to look at the back of the scabbard. If the item was made before 1991, then there will definitely be manufacturer's marks.

BBking · 14th January 2023, 07:42 AM

Thank you for the replies !!
Here some pictures of the back of the scabbard.
Really nothing special / no stamp or other drawing / engraving...

ariel · 14th January 2023, 11:32 AM

Well, the back of the scabbard was not informative, but even without it one can be certain that we are dealing with a recent, mass-produced tourist kindjal. Nothing “old” or even “vintage”.

cyten · 14th January 2023, 01:00 PM

Here in the Caucasus, there are many of these new made kindjals available in flea markets and tourist areas. Some are even purposely aged to look like antiques. But it is also quite possible to find true antique fittings for the blades and scabbards. Some people are making use of these on new blades.

BBking · 14th January 2023, 04:17 PM

Hello and thank you for the reply,

Just a question:

Except the blade, I ve got a similar kindjal in scabbard and hilt work.( cf older Thread)
The kindjal, good blade helps, was considerated dating from end 19th/ early 20th century
In the same way no mark or signature on the back.

If I change the blade , they are ''the same'' !

So this scabbard can be newly made ,
It can be made for decoration-tourists
( a thought :
can Daghestan bladesmiths still produce kindjals with real forged blades ?? Neve saw )

I can't imagine it was made in massive production like the cast models or ugly recent ones.

Ren Ren you talked about an Avar master,
Was it a generic name ??

BBking · 14th January 2023, 04:24 PM

Like this one per example

Ren Ren · 14th January 2023, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBking

Ren Ren you talked about an Avar master,
Was it a generic name ??

Several dozen peoples live in Dagestan, of which the Avars are one of the largest. The Avar village of Gotsatl is a large and well-known center of jewelry craftsmanship, especially the art of silver processing. But the Dargin village of Kubachi is certainly larger and better known. Previously, each people in Dagestan had its own style of decorating daggers. Now some of the traditions have been lost, but the work of silversmiths from Gotsatl and Kubachi is still different.

Ren Ren · 14th January 2023, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Well, the back of the scabbard was not informative, but even without it one can be certain that we are dealing with a recent, mass-produced tourist kindjal.

It is very easy to distinguish a "tourist kindjal" - the hardness of the blade cannot be higher than 25 HRC. This rule was valid in the USSR, and is still valid in Russia.

14th January 2023, 07:42 AM	#3
BBking Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 66	Thank you for the replies !! Here some pictures of the back of the scabbard. Really nothing special / no stamp or other drawing / engraving... Attached Images

14th January 2023, 04:24 PM	#7
BBking Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 66	Like this one per example Attached Images

14th January 2023, 01:32 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Can you show the back of the scabbard? Sometimes there may be a telltale mark.

14th January 2023, 05:32 AM	#2
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 365	According to the style of decor, I can assume that this dagger was made in Dagestan by an Avar master from the village of Gotsatl. Production time - 1980-1990. I agree with ariel, you need to look at the back of the scabbard. If the item was made before 1991, then there will definitely be manufacturer's marks.

14th January 2023, 11:32 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, the back of the scabbard was not informative, but even without it one can be certain that we are dealing with a recent, mass-produced tourist kindjal. Nothing “old” or even “vintage”.

14th January 2023, 01:00 PM	#5
cyten Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Caucasus Posts: 89	Here in the Caucasus, there are many of these new made kindjals available in flea markets and tourist areas. Some are even purposely aged to look like antiques. But it is also quite possible to find true antique fittings for the blades and scabbards. Some people are making use of these on new blades.

14th January 2023, 04:17 PM	#6
BBking Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 66	Hello and thank you for the reply, Just a question: Except the blade, I ve got a similar kindjal in scabbard and hilt work.( cf older Thread) The kindjal, good blade helps, was considerated dating from end 19th/ early 20th century In the same way no mark or signature on the back. If I change the blade , they are ''the same'' ! So this scabbard can be newly made , It can be made for decoration-tourists ( a thought : can Daghestan bladesmiths still produce kindjals with real forged blades ?? Neve saw ) I can't imagine it was made in massive production like the cast models or ugly recent ones. Ren Ren you talked about an Avar master, Was it a generic name ??