Curious marriage: a Kard

David R · 19th January 2021, 12:16 PM

The blade and scabbard are very nice, but the hilt is probably a walking stick handle.

mahratt · 19th January 2021, 06:20 PM

This is Central Asia. End of the 19th century. By this time, Central Asia was annexed to the Russian Empire. Many people who lived in the Russian Empire moved to Central Asia. Including master jewelers from the Caucasus. In Bukhara and other cities, these master jewelers from the Caucasus began to make silver sheaths in the Caucasian style for the traditional knives of Central Asia: kard, bichaq and pesh-kabz.

Judging by the shape of the scabbard, they were made for the bichaq.

Lee · 19th January 2021, 07:53 PM

Take a look at this old thread as the bolster and a blade possibly recycled from previous mounts bring this type to mind.

Gonzoadler · 19th January 2021, 08:25 PM

Thanks for your helpful comments. There are a lot of similar but not equal pieces from Central Asia, so I was'nt completely sure about that origin.
That the scabbard was made for a Bichaq could be more likely than for a Kard, but the examples from the old thread looking really plausible, too.

I think it is possible that the handle was made for a walking stick, don't know if such sticks were common in that region.

It would be great if anyone can show pieces which are partly similar.

Regards

ariel · 4th February 2021, 06:24 AM

Either my eyes betray me, or there is something strange with the blade.
It has a blunt ricasso, so it could not have been shortened from that end.
But the fuller is very short and does not seem to run into the point, so even that end is original. Either it was indeed a saber blade ( Western, not Oriental), with a very short fuller ( in which case colleagues from the European section might be of help), or a bayonet(???).
You are correct, the chasing motifs are Caucasian, and the niello seems to point that way, but the end of the scabbard is tilted up ( Turkish?).

If the handle is from a walking stick, that would hint at other " foreign" parts.

I cannot find any traces of anything Central Asian.

Rich · 4th February 2021, 12:00 PM

Interesting piece. Put a cross guard on the blade and it becomes an European hunting knife.
Rich

mahratt · 4th February 2021, 12:23 PM

A few more knives from Central Asia in a similar scabard^

Kubur · 4th February 2021, 12:46 PM

Plus the iron mountings with gold Koftgari, Central Asian and /or Persian?

mahratt · 4th February 2021, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Plus the iron mountings with gold Koftgari, Central Asian and /or Persian?

Persian for me...

mariusgmioc · 4th February 2021, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

A few more knives from Central Asia in a similar scabard^

I cannot find a single one with a similar scabbard. Well, maybe the one on the left, but only because of the nielo.

Anyhow, this is a true "chimera" to me.

The scabbard looks Caucasian... I guess...
the blade looks European... I guess again...
and the hilt looks... I am out of guesses...

Interested Party · 5th February 2021, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I cannot find a single one with a similar scabbard. Well, maybe the one on the left, but only because of the nielo.

Anyhow, this is a true "chimera" to me.

The scabbard looks Caucasian... I guess...
the blade looks European... I guess again...
and the hilt looks... I am out of guesses...

The blade and the overall look remind me of Scandinavian patterns. I don't believe it is, the blade maybe, but the look is there.....I think it is the contour of the sheath, the line of the handle to the blade, but not the materials that make the sheath and handle. The bolster vs the Scandinavian ferule. I see the niello and the onion blossom at the tip for Caucasian influence.
I would love to know this piece's story. A chimera.

Gonzoalder you always find interesting pieces.

mahratt · 5th February 2021, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I cannot find a single one with a similar scabbard. Well, maybe the one on the left, but only because of the nielo.

Correctly. Because there is not a single pchak in the photo. Only kards and karud.
But, in Caucasus, I cannot remember knives of such a shape that would fit this scabbard ... But in Central Asia there are such knives

By the way, I think from the knives that I showed in the photo against the background of the carpet, there is no question that their scabbard is from Central Asia?

4th February 2021, 12:23 PM	#7
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	A few more knives from Central Asia in a similar scabard^ Attached Images

19th January 2021, 12:16 PM	#1
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,055	The blade and scabbard are very nice, but the hilt is probably a walking stick handle.

19th January 2021, 06:20 PM	#2
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	This is Central Asia. End of the 19th century. By this time, Central Asia was annexed to the Russian Empire. Many people who lived in the Russian Empire moved to Central Asia. Including master jewelers from the Caucasus. In Bukhara and other cities, these master jewelers from the Caucasus began to make silver sheaths in the Caucasian style for the traditional knives of Central Asia: kard, bichaq and pesh-kabz. Judging by the shape of the scabbard, they were made for the bichaq.

19th January 2021, 07:53 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 898	Take a look at this old thread as the bolster and a blade possibly recycled from previous mounts bring this type to mind.

19th January 2021, 08:25 PM	#4
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 239	Thanks for your helpful comments. There are a lot of similar but not equal pieces from Central Asia, so I was'nt completely sure about that origin. That the scabbard was made for a Bichaq could be more likely than for a Kard, but the examples from the old thread looking really plausible, too. I think it is possible that the handle was made for a walking stick, don't know if such sticks were common in that region. It would be great if anyone can show pieces which are partly similar. Regards

4th February 2021, 06:24 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Either my eyes betray me, or there is something strange with the blade. It has a blunt ricasso, so it could not have been shortened from that end. But the fuller is very short and does not seem to run into the point, so even that end is original. Either it was indeed a saber blade ( Western, not Oriental), with a very short fuller ( in which case colleagues from the European section might be of help), or a bayonet(???). You are correct, the chasing motifs are Caucasian, and the niello seems to point that way, but the end of the scabbard is tilted up ( Turkish?). If the handle is from a walking stick, that would hint at other " foreign" parts. I cannot find any traces of anything Central Asian.

4th February 2021, 12:00 PM	#6
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Interesting piece. Put a cross guard on the blade and it becomes an European hunting knife. Rich

4th February 2021, 12:46 PM	#8
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Plus the iron mountings with gold Koftgari, Central Asian and /or Persian?