Kaskara with a peculiar maker mark

TVV · 16th April 2023, 07:45 PM

Very nice sword Mauro, thank you for sharing with us. The knight marking is of Clauberg from Solingen. Blades by this maker were very prized on the Arab peninsula, based on info A. Alnakkas collected at local souks. I would not be able to tell you what years the mark without any writing around it was used, but if someone can then it might give some insight as to when the blade was produced. 19th century seems like a very reasonable estimate on age.

Saber blades on kaskara hilts are indeed very unusual and I even have a kaskara with a blade that was reworked from curved to straight. Perhaps in this case an exception was made due to the blade's high perceived value.

Rick · 16th April 2023, 09:17 PM

Is this style of fuller common or have a name or an era when it was popular?
I ask because I've a Malay sabre with the same style of fullers.

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2023, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Very nice sword Mauro, thank you for sharing with us. The knight marking is of Clauberg from Solingen. Blades by this maker were very prized on the Arab peninsula, based on info A. Alnakkas collected at local souks. I would not be able to tell you what years the mark without any writing around it was used, but if someone can then it might give some insight as to when the blade was produced. 19th century seems like a very reasonable estimate on age.

Saber blades on kaskara hilts are indeed very unusual and I even have a kaskara with a blade that was reworked from curved to straight. Perhaps in this case an exception was made due to the blade's high perceived value.

Wilhelm Clauberg was a Solingen maker listed as early as 1857 and while specifics are unclear, most swords and bayonets made by him(with this knight marking) seem to predate the Franco-Prussian war.

While clearly the kaskara used by native forces in the Sudan preferred the broadsword blade, many significant figures (chiefs or prominent) seem to have adopted the curved saber in varying degree in accord with Arab sabers such as shamshirs etc.

A.alnakkas · 16th April 2023, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Very nice sword Mauro, thank you for sharing with us. The knight marking is of Clauberg from Solingen. Blades by this maker were very prized on the Arab peninsula, based on info A. Alnakkas collected at local souks. I would not be able to tell you what years the mark without any writing around it was used, but if someone can then it might give some insight as to when the blade was produced. 19th century seems like a very reasonable estimate on age.

Saber blades on kaskara hilts are indeed very unusual and I even have a kaskara with a blade that was reworked from curved to straight. Perhaps in this case an exception was made due to the blade's high perceived value.

Yes indeed, to this day those blades especially if in good condition are highly sought after due to their balance, light weight and overall attractive shape.

Edster · 16th April 2023, 10:41 PM

Mauro,

You have a very nice saber, but please don't call me too stuffy if I can't call it a Kaskara. As we accept, the kaskara is a double edged straight broad sword with a signature forged iron cross guard and scabbard. Your saber has a cast copper alloy cross guard in the Ottoman style often seen on Thuluth inscribed swords in the otherwise kaskara style.

Agreed in the 18th C & early 19th C elites across the Sahel used imported sabers, but they gave way once European trade blades flooded Sudan from the early 19th C. onward. During this period the iconic kaskara style emerged and solidified.

Does your saber has a scabbard? Its style could support the saber's origin.

Best,
Ed

werecow · 17th April 2023, 12:25 AM

That double fuller going into a quadruple fuller reminds me of this Aceh peudeung blade, except for the tip and the smaller ricasso. Does anyone know if these Indonesian sword blades were inspired by those (presumably older) blades? It seems a bit specific to be a coincidence.

A.alnakkas · 17th April 2023, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow

That double fuller going into a quadruple fuller reminds me of this Aceh peudeung blade, except for the tip and the smaller ricasso. Does anyone know if these Indonesian sword blades were inspired by those (presumably older) blades? It seems a bit specific to be a coincidence.

what an attractive blade. Can you post dimensions? as far as I know, most of this type of blade are pattern welded, but some, very rarely, are wootz.

werecow · 17th April 2023, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

what an attractive blade. Can you post dimensions? as far as I know, most of this type of blade are pattern welded, but some, very rarely, are wootz.

Sure! I'll create a separate thread for it actually so as to not hijack this one (though I'd still be interested in the connection between the blades).

Philip · 18th April 2023, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow

That double fuller going into a quadruple fuller reminds me of this Aceh peudeung blade, except for the tip and the smaller ricasso. Does anyone know if these Indonesian sword blades were inspired by those (presumably older) blades? It seems a bit specific to be a coincidence.

The example you show is an Aceh interpretation of one of those European saber blades with "split" fullers. The features you cite are defining features of the Aceh versions, which tend to be lighter than the European originals, and often of very fine steel showing prominent pattern-welding.

Back to the subject of this thread, saber blades with this fuller pattern were widely exported to the East from Europe. You see slightly curved ones mounted up as Caucasian shashkas. More deeply curved blades with widened back-edges in the tip regions are occasionally seen on Ottoman and Balkan hilts. They were used within Europe, as well. Here is one fitted up as a Polish or Hungarian hussar saber:

werecow · 18th April 2023, 12:50 PM

Ah interesting, thanks. I'm guessing that saber looks 18th century? How far back does the split fuller practice go?

Jim McDougall · 18th April 2023, 04:01 PM

In the original post, Mauro was hoping to find the probable origin of the blade on his unusual Sudanese saber. As Ed has well noted in his post #6, by proper classification this is clearly not a kaskara, which is by definition a Sudanese broadsword.

In my post #4, I noted a saber I have which has distinctly Sudanese characteristic elements, and as such I have deemed it a saber which is probably Sudanese.

While the discussion of these other saber blades from Aceh etc. is interesting it has little to do with the original question by Mauro.......how old is the blade on the most unusual saber he has, and the most salient element , the standing knight marking on the blade.

If I may reiterate my notes from previous post, the marking of the standing knight actually was fairly well known on Sudanese kaskaras (broadswords) but here is the point.......as far as I have known not on a saber blade in a kaskara style hilt. It is, again as noted earlier, the mark of Wilhelm Clauberg of Solingen.

Here it is important to note that Gen. Gordon while Governor General of Sudan in 1878 invited Rudolf von Slatin of Austria to become the Governor of Dara in SW Darfur. Slatin arrived there in 1879 to take that post.

In this time there was considerable trade in these regions which included of course Austria and Germany . In 1882 as the Mahdiyya had begun, a rebellion of Rizeigat tribesmen in Darfur took place in support of the Mahdi, and Slatin was captured. After the death of the Mahdi in 1885, he became the prisoner of Khalifa Abdullahi, until his escape in 1895.

In his book "Fire and Sword in the Sudan" (1896) Slatin notes that the Mahdi himself had a sword with a blade with markings and inscriptions clearly indicating its Eastern Europe origins. This would suggest that these blades were notably present and of high esteem in this period (1882-1885).

In references it is noted that the sword blades made by Clauberg appear to be from the period before the end of the Franco-Prussian war (1870), so this blade would appear to be from a cavalry saber pre-1870.

Whether it was mounted in the 'kaskara' style hilt in that time is unclear, but that it arrived in Sudan sometime around 1880 or slightly later seems most likely .

Mauro, I hope this might shed some light on the likely circumstances of your most interesting saber.

I have attached your photos from original post of the saber and marking we are discussing.

BTW Werecow, thank you for starting a new thread on the 'other ' topic which has indeed overtaken the query here.

Philip · 18th April 2023, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow

Ah interesting, thanks. I'm guessing that saber looks 18th century? How far back does the split fuller practice go?

Blades of this style are mostly associated with the 17th cent. However, as I mentioned the slightly-curved ones are sometimes seen on shashkas which for all appearances are 19th cent. It's likely that the style of fullering was carried over to a later period for commercial export purposes.

Which brings to mind a funny thing -- years ago, I had an unusual Vietnamese short saber with a carved horn grip including the knucklebow. The sturdy blade had the same fullering pattern, although I could tell that it was locally made because the bottoms of the wide fullers were flat rather than semi-round as on the European ones. And the workshop name, in Chinese characters, was chiseled on the ricasso! Interesting how these European affectations were copied by workmen in far off lands. The Metropolitan Museum of Art has a matchlock musket from Tonkin (northern Vietnam) with longitudinal fluting chiseled at the breech of the barrel, in the manner of 17th cent. Brescian barrelmakers Cominazzo, Francino, et al. (of course, the Cominazzo name was widely faked on guns made in the Ottoman empire as well).

Regarding your question on the saber hilt, it is a style typical of Poland and Hungary from the latter 16th cent. until the mid-17th. It is an "Oriental" style with clear influence from eastern cultures. Later Polish hilts, with L-shaped guards or full knucklebows) gradually replaced these beginning in the mid-17th cent.

Mauro · 19th April 2023, 02:04 PM

unfortunately this sword had no scabbard but I decideed to buy anyway due to the peculiarity of the blade and the maker mark. Many thanks for the various contributions. I have other kaskara in my collection (and I shall post another one very soon) but I have not seen other guards like this, that looks hand made and that, to my eyes could indicate an old age. However the proposed approximate age around 1870 or slightly younger seems to me a quite good approximation for the blade and probably also for the mount. Thanks again to all the contributors

18th April 2023, 04:01 PM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	In the original post, Mauro was hoping to find the probable origin of the blade on his unusual Sudanese saber. As Ed has well noted in his post #6, by proper classification this is clearly not a kaskara, which is by definition a Sudanese broadsword. In my post #4, I noted a saber I have which has distinctly Sudanese characteristic elements, and as such I have deemed it a saber which is probably Sudanese. While the discussion of these other saber blades from Aceh etc. is interesting it has little to do with the original question by Mauro.......how old is the blade on the most unusual saber he has, and the most salient element , the standing knight marking on the blade. If I may reiterate my notes from previous post, the marking of the standing knight actually was fairly well known on Sudanese kaskaras (broadswords) but here is the point.......as far as I have known not on a saber blade in a kaskara style hilt. It is, again as noted earlier, the mark of Wilhelm Clauberg of Solingen. Here it is important to note that Gen. Gordon while Governor General of Sudan in 1878 invited Rudolf von Slatin of Austria to become the Governor of Dara in SW Darfur. Slatin arrived there in 1879 to take that post. In this time there was considerable trade in these regions which included of course Austria and Germany . In 1882 as the Mahdiyya had begun, a rebellion of Rizeigat tribesmen in Darfur took place in support of the Mahdi, and Slatin was captured. After the death of the Mahdi in 1885, he became the prisoner of Khalifa Abdullahi, until his escape in 1895. In his book "Fire and Sword in the Sudan" (1896) Slatin notes that the Mahdi himself had a sword with a blade with markings and inscriptions clearly indicating its Eastern Europe origins. This would suggest that these blades were notably present and of high esteem in this period (1882-1885). In references it is noted that the sword blades made by Clauberg appear to be from the period before the end of the Franco-Prussian war (1870), so this blade would appear to be from a cavalry saber pre-1870. Whether it was mounted in the 'kaskara' style hilt in that time is unclear, but that it arrived in Sudan sometime around 1880 or slightly later seems most likely . Mauro, I hope this might shed some light on the likely circumstances of your most interesting saber. I have attached your photos from original post of the saber and marking we are discussing. BTW Werecow, thank you for starting a new thread on the 'other ' topic which has indeed overtaken the query here. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 18th April 2023 at 07:02 PM.

19th April 2023, 02:04 PM	#13
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	no scabbard unfortunately unfortunately this sword had no scabbard but I decideed to buy anyway due to the peculiarity of the blade and the maker mark. Many thanks for the various contributions. I have other kaskara in my collection (and I shall post another one very soon) but I have not seen other guards like this, that looks hand made and that, to my eyes could indicate an old age. However the proposed approximate age around 1870 or slightly younger seems to me a quite good approximation for the blade and probably also for the mount. Thanks again to all the contributors

16th April 2023, 07:45 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,601	Very nice sword Mauro, thank you for sharing with us. The knight marking is of Clauberg from Solingen. Blades by this maker were very prized on the Arab peninsula, based on info A. Alnakkas collected at local souks. I would not be able to tell you what years the mark without any writing around it was used, but if someone can then it might give some insight as to when the blade was produced. 19th century seems like a very reasonable estimate on age. Saber blades on kaskara hilts are indeed very unusual and I even have a kaskara with a blade that was reworked from curved to straight. Perhaps in this case an exception was made due to the blade's high perceived value.

16th April 2023, 09:17 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	Is this style of fuller common or have a name or an era when it was popular? I ask because I've a Malay sabre with the same style of fullers.

16th April 2023, 10:41 PM	#5
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 401	Mauro, You have a very nice saber, but please don't call me too stuffy if I can't call it a Kaskara. As we accept, the kaskara is a double edged straight broad sword with a signature forged iron cross guard and scabbard. Your saber has a cast copper alloy cross guard in the Ottoman style often seen on Thuluth inscribed swords in the otherwise kaskara style. Agreed in the 18th C & early 19th C elites across the Sahel used imported sabers, but they gave way once European trade blades flooded Sudan from the early 19th C. onward. During this period the iconic kaskara style emerged and solidified. Does your saber has a scabbard? Its style could support the saber's origin. Best, Ed

17th April 2023, 12:25 AM	#6
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 435	That double fuller going into a quadruple fuller reminds me of this Aceh peudeung blade, except for the tip and the smaller ricasso. Does anyone know if these Indonesian sword blades were inspired by those (presumably older) blades? It seems a bit specific to be a coincidence. Attached Images

18th April 2023, 12:50 PM	#10
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 435	Ah interesting, thanks. I'm guessing that saber looks 18th century? How far back does the split fuller practice go?