Keris for identification

[naturalist]

Mayang Mekar is not referring to a type of leaves.
Mayang is the name of betel nut flower, Mekar is blossom.

Originally Posted by SidJ

Pamor Mayang Mekar

[Gustav]

I am afraid, even Empu not always give us the consistency in their work we expect from them, and that includes Greneng. Overall form of it will be recognisable but parts of it, even Dha, can vary.

This looks like a quite late work by Djeno, where the biggest part if not all work already was done by his apprentices. In Western art, since around 1880, we distinguish between Rubens, Rubens and workshop, and workshop of Rubens in paintings. I doubt we will see this level in Kerisology, and I also doubt its expected, useful and necessary.

I am afraid to say, that even Keris by Djeno can turn up in a gun show or flea market. That all depends on heirs, and things can go very quickly. Value is a very fleeting and unstable category.

[Gustav]

Here are two Keris from the same dealer, one of them with a certificate supposedly signed by Sungkowo (Greneng of it posted by David), another one with a certificate supposedly signed by Djeno himself.

I find the comparison between these two Keris, including their Greneng, quite insightful.

[A. G. Maisey]

That is a very useful contribution Gustav, I tried to do something similar myself, but I have not had the time to look for suitable photos.

Apart from the enormous difference in the way these two men have executed the blade characteristics, the thing that really sticks out like a pimple on a pumpkin is that although both are working in the Jogja "school", neither man has worked in Jogja style. Djeno comes closer than Sungkowo, but neither keris is really recognizable as Jogja.

[Gustav]

Alan, Sungkowo's(?) certificate states the Keris is work of Djeno from 2001.

From the three Keris in this thread, the only one which really resembles Djeno's or better Ngentho-Entho work to me is the initial one.

[David]

Saying a work “resembles” the work if Empu Djeno is not the same as having provenance that the work actual is Djeno. I agree with Anthony that the only way to establish this as a Djeno Keris with any validity would be to have it assessed by his son. That would be necessary i suppose if you ever wanted to achieve top dollar with a resale of this keris. But it is obviously a nice keris so that would be of less concern for me personally since i have never really approached my collection as an investment or accumulation of wealth. My main concern with this blade would be removing the rust. LOL! ;-)
Yes Gustav, I am sure anything is possible in terms of where a keris can end up, though we don’t really have anymore than the possibility of a single generation’s passing to content with here. I am not sure how Sid acquired this keris, but it seems it did not come to him as a known Djeno piece. Sure, it is possible a keris of this level could be sold by an uninterested heir to a dealer who had no idea what he was buying and tossed it around until it got this beat up. That does seem less likely though.
And yes, I was aware that there are true Djeno keris as well as work done mostly by his apprentices. This doesn’t mean Djeno himself was necessarily inconsistent in his greneng execution. But it can certainly explain why documented “Djeno” keris might appear that way.

[Gustav]

David, I have handled a couple of genuine Djeno's Keris and own one. I can always be wrong, but in picture this definitely looks like Ngentho-Entho work to me and like a late work by Djeno.

I used the word "resembles", because that's the best word I could find to be able to include the other two Keris in my sentence.

[David]

Saying a work “resembles” the work if Empu Djeno is not the same as having provenance that the work actual is Djeno. I agree with Anthony that the only way to establish this as a Djeno Keris with any validity would be to have it assessed by his son. That would be necessary i suppose if you ever wanted to achieve top dollar with a resale of this keris. But it is obviously a nice keris so that would be of less concern for me personally since i have never really approached my collection as an investment or accumulation of wealth. My main concern with this blade would be removing the rust. LOL! ;-)
Yes Gustav, I am sure anything is possible in terms of where a keris can end up, though we don’t really have anymore than the possibility of a single generation’s passing to content with here. I am not sure how Sid acquired this keris, but it seems it did not come to him as a known Djeno piece. Sure, it is possible a keris of this level could be sold by an uninterested heir to a dealer who had no idea what he was buying and tossed it around until it got this beat up. That does seem less likely though.
And yes, I was aware that there are true Djeno keris as well as work done mostly by his apprentices. This doesn’t mean Djeno himself was necessarily inconsistent in his greneng execution. But it can certainly explain why documented “Djeno” keris might appear that way.

[A. G. Maisey]

Sorry Gustav, I misunderstood what you wrote, in truth, I just skimmed your text and looked at the images. I have handled quite a few Djeno keris, and less keris by Sungkowo, but looking at the images you posted what I saw was a Djeno keris & a Sungkowo keris.

In fact what I still see is a Djeno keris & a Sungkowo keris, in spite of the certificate.

Your wording of text in post #15 is I believe as it should be:- "supposedly".


There is something else I should mention too, not that it makes any real difference. Pak Sungkowo is Pak Djeno's nephew, not his son.

Yes, the word "anak" can be understood as "child" , but it can be understood in many other ways as well, it does not necessarily mean that if we refer to somebody as "anak saya" (my child) that "anak" is necessarily my own offspring.

Pak Parman (Empu Suparman) would refer to me as his "anak", but it was perfectly obvious to all who could see that there was no way I could be the blood child of Pak Parman.