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Old 4th June 2020, 06:59 PM   #1
francantolin
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Default Old or new ''fake'' yemeni jambiya-khanjar ?

Hello,
I wanted to show you the dagger I just received,
looks like a yemeni khanjar,
total length 35cm

I liked the leather scabbard.
It was sold at a really low price so I bought it because it seemed not too recent and well made.
I knew the hilt was not made of horn but it is not wood and not just plastic-resin

Maybe made of bakelite or mixed stuff ? ( I read about that on the forum )

Do you think it's an old ''copy-imitation'' of a rhino hilted khanjar,

or can it be really recent

I tried to heat a little, it smells not like horn/hair not plastic
but a little like soap-incense.

Any comment ?

Thank you -Kind regards
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Old 4th June 2020, 07:00 PM   #2
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Sorry,
pictures are not in the right order...
some more
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Old 4th June 2020, 07:45 PM   #3
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Good genuine Yemeni Jambiya IMHO. Not a recent made tourist piece.
Stu
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Old 4th June 2020, 08:55 PM   #4
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The hilt could be "Amberoid" .... https://www.britannica.com/science/amberoid-resin

I think you got a nice one.
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Old 4th June 2020, 10:07 PM   #5
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Hi
It's a nice jambiya from Aden.
It depends what you call old, if old is 1950ties, it's old.
I think it is hornoid or bakelite.
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Old 5th June 2020, 03:13 PM   #6
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"I tried to heat a little, it smells not like horn/hair not plastic
but a little like soap-incense."

Which is why I am thinking something resinous, like Amberoid.
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Old 5th June 2020, 03:15 PM   #7
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Hello,

Thank you all for your comments !

50's just begins to be old for humans, for a jambiya not sure
hopefully it's not too recent.

Interesting the ''amberoid'' I didn't know it

I wonder why they used to do this kind of hilt materials instead wood or marble-stone handle and why they mixed it with real silver filgree-mounts.

- Was it to sell it high priced as a rare rhino hilted piece to the few
( I think !?! ) present strangers ( for British ? with the Aden Protectorate... )

- Or for local people who liked the similarity with horn hilt but hadn't enough
money to buy one ? ( like skaļ-imitation leather instead of real one )
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Old 5th June 2020, 03:16 PM   #8
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by David R
"I tried to heat a little, it smells not like horn/hair not plastic
but a little like soap-incense."

Which is why I am thinking something resinous, like Amberoid.



logical !
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Old 5th June 2020, 05:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R
"I tried to heat a little, it smells not like horn/hair not plastic
but a little like soap-incense."

Which is why I am thinking something resinous, like Amberoid.


Indeed it is extremely interesting! Especialy in Yemen.
I have some jambiya the blade is connected to the hilt with some frankincense... but its a bit sticky.
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Old 5th June 2020, 05:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin

I wonder why they used to do this kind of hilt materials instead wood or marble-stone handle and why they mixed it with real silver filgree-mounts.

- Was it to sell it high priced as a rare rhino hilted piece to the few
( I think !?! ) present strangers ( for British ? with the Aden Protectorate... )

- Or for local people who liked the similarity with horn hilt but hadn't enough
money to buy one ? ( like skaļ-imitation leather instead of real one )


You should buy Gracie's book, the best on this topic.
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Old 5th June 2020, 09:16 PM   #11
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Amberoid is not a cheap material, though nowhere near as expensive as natural Amber. It can also be bought as fairly large blocks, as used to be sold by a supplier used to deal with. The technology is also old, dating back to the late bronze age.

It was a favoured material for pipe stems in the West and in the Muslim world, regarded as self purifying in the Middle East and is used a lot for worry beads in place of genuine amber. No guarantee of course but it would be my guess.

https://gem-a.com/gem-hub/gem-knowl...structed-pieces
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Old 5th June 2020, 09:37 PM   #12
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I'm unable to speculate regarging the hilt materiel, but the silver work is attractive.

The blade has an odd look, to me, making me wonder if it is solid, or a welded-together molded 2-piece construct, which I understand is sometimes done. (It's surprisingly shiny, making me think of some sort of plating).
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Old 6th June 2020, 04:32 PM   #13
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Hello,

Thank you David for your comment,
maybe it's amberoid as you suggest, maybe mixed, some parts have translucence and are brown with no light, other nothing at all ( cf pictures ),

for the blade I put some pictures, really don't see/think it's made of two sheets but it is really thin compared to other jambiyas I have and has a really sharp edge

Kind regards
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Old 6th June 2020, 05:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob A
I'm unable to speculate regarding the hilt material, but the silver work is attractive.

The blade has an odd look, to me, making me wonder if it is solid, or a welded-together moulded 2-piece construct, which I understand is sometimes done. (It's surprisingly shiny, making me think of some sort of plating).


I notice d that too, they make a lot of fake blades now, cheap thin sheet steel with the central ridge stamped in to a left/right half, edges welded then ground a bit. Blade appears thick but is hollow. If the hand grip is resin, the 'silver' may be plated.
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Old 6th June 2020, 06:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
You should buy Gracie's book, the best on this topic.


What title?
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Old 6th June 2020, 06:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
I notice d that too, they make a lot of fake blades now, cheap thin sheet steel with the central ridge stamped in to a left/right half, edges welded then ground a bit. Blade appears thick but is hollow. If the hand grip is resin, the 'silver' may be plated.



Hello,

the blade is thin but it's made of only one piece of metal and there is a central ridge on both side
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Old 6th June 2020, 07:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interested Party
What title?


Stephen Gracie, "Jambiya: Daggers from the Ancient Souks of Yemen"

If you can, get the hardcover copy. A really great book, with a ton of info and great pictures and also very pleasant to read. Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia" also has a lot of good info in the chapter on daggers.
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Old 6th June 2020, 08:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVV
Stephen Gracie, "Jambiya: Daggers from the Ancient Souks of Yemen"

If you can, get the hardcover copy. A really great book, with a ton of info and great pictures and also very pleasant to read. Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia" also has a lot of good info in the chapter on daggers.


I confirm but Elgood's book is not cheap...
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Old 6th June 2020, 09:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVV
Stephen Gracie, "Jambiya: Daggers from the Ancient Souks of Yemen"

If you can, get the hardcover copy. A really great book, with a ton of info and great pictures and also very pleasant to read. Elgood's "The Arms and Armour of Arabia" also has a lot of good info in the chapter on daggers.

This book was available from Artzi. He may still have copies. Contact details for Oriental Arms can be found in the Members List above.
I agree with Teodor's comments....if you have an interest in Jambya then this is the book to have.
Stu
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Old 7th June 2020, 11:36 AM   #20
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Old 7th June 2020, 12:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
I notice d that too, they make a lot of fake blades now, cheap thin sheet steel with the central ridge stamped in to a left/right half, edges welded then ground a bit. Blade appears thick but is hollow. If the hand grip is resin, the 'silver' may be plated.


I had one more than twenty years since that someone had attempted to sharpen on a wheel, resulting in the partial separation of the two halves.
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