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Old 7th December 2018, 05:08 PM   #1
eftihis
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Default A short balkan musket

Do you have any ideas about the specific area of the Balkans that this musket originated?
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Old 7th December 2018, 05:15 PM   #2
Kubur
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Oh yes
100 % Tunisian / North African
look in our forum with these key words
plus the lock looks very Spanish or Portuguese to me
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Old 7th December 2018, 05:17 PM   #3
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Thanks Kubur! Are the photos visible allright? Or you have to download them?
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Old 7th December 2018, 06:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eftihis
Thanks Kubur! Are the photos visible allright? Or you have to download them?

Kubur obviously can see the pics but I can not. They will not open so can you please post to the thread in the normal way?
Stu
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Old 10th December 2018, 07:00 AM   #5
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Now they are working!
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Old 10th December 2018, 09:16 AM   #6
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Just to add something the butt is very Ottoman and i'll place your gun in the 18th c. not the 19th c.
Tunisian as i said and you have something similar in Tirri's book...
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Old 10th December 2018, 06:01 PM   #7
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I do not believe that this gun is Tunisian or in fact North African. The "boxy" butt profile IMHO is all wrong for that region.
Stu
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Old 11th December 2018, 08:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnjar1
I do not believe that this gun is Tunisian or in fact North African. The "boxy" butt profile IMHO is all wrong for that region.
Stu


Ok I own you some explanations.
Yes the butt / stock is probably Turkish or from the Balkans.
The lock is Sardinian according to Tirri but I think more at a Spanish or a Portuguese lock. The decoration is pure Tunisian.
Now if you don't have it, buy Elgood's book on the Balkans, he explains how Ottoman guns were exported to North Africa and Tunisia and fitted for the local market.
So yes this gun is Tunisian but with some pieces from all over the Meditteranean. Look at the so-called Ottoman Balkans guns they are fitted with Italian lock and canons, but they are not Italians...
I hope that I manged to convince you...
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Old 11th December 2018, 07:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Ok I own you some explanations.
Yes the butt / stock is probably Turkish or from the Balkans.
The lock is Sardinian according to Tirri but I think more at a Spanish or a Portuguese lock. The decoration is pure Tunisian.
Now if you don't have it, buy Elgood's book on the Balkans, he explains how Ottoman guns were exported to North Africa and Tunisia and fitted for the local market.
So yes this gun is Tunisian but with some pieces from all over the Meditteranean. Look at the so-called Ottoman Balkans guns they are fitted with Italian lock and canons, but they are not Italians...
I hope that I manged to convince you...

Hi Kubur,
If you refer to the original question by Eftihis, he is asking where this gun ORIGINATES. It may have Tunisian decoration but that does not answer his question.
The lock on the subject gun is not Sardinian. I show here pics of the lock on my Sardinian gun and you will see that it is entirely different from that on Eftihis' gun, and YES I do have Elgood's book on Greek/Balkan guns and note that the Ottomans and indeed many countries exported guns.
Stu
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Old 11th December 2018, 11:21 PM   #10
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http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/searc...earchid=1178539

Hello

The lock is Portuguese, product of export, or recycling of the lock of some weapon

Affectionately
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Old 11th December 2018, 11:25 PM   #11
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Old 12th December 2018, 09:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando K
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/searc...earchid=1178539

Hello

The lock is Portuguese, product of export, or recycling of the lock of some weapon

Affectionately


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
The lock is Sardinian according to Tirri but I think more at a Spanish or a Portuguese lock.


Agreed! I remember the excellent discussion that you had with Rick about these locks
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Old 12th December 2018, 10:47 AM   #13
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Hello

Here is an image of a sardinian lock, already uploaded in this forum

Affectionately
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Old 13th December 2018, 02:58 PM   #14
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Hi Eftihis

That is a very interesting musket. As Stu mentioned, the stock shape is done very much in Ottoman/Turkish fashion. But as Kubur mentioned, the decoration does indeed remind me of Tunisian. The lock is definitely a Portuguese variant. Probably made for export. And the Link provided above which included Philip's comprehensive post is most helpful.

Eftihis: Could you post a close-up photo of the lock ? If possible, an outside, inside, and top views ?

Again, a really nice and interesting shoulder gun. Could have been made for a Tunisian customer using a variety of parts available.

Here is a pic of the later made, cheap quality copies made for the African continent. This one is in working order, but took some work. LOL

Rick
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Old 13th December 2018, 05:31 PM   #15
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Hello

The lock presented by Ricky is not exactly a copy. because the half cock is achieved by the little piece that is in front of the cock. In change in the weapon presented by Efthis, the half cock is achieved by a notch in the tumbler, as in all lock with vertical shooting system

Affectionately
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Old 14th December 2018, 09:38 PM   #16
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Just to feed the discussion
Tirri's Tunisian gun with a stock / butt Ottoman / Algerian
and a lock Portuguese?
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Old 15th December 2018, 01:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Just to feed the discussion
Tirri's Tunisian gun with a stock / butt Ottoman / Algerian
and a lock Portuguese?

Hi Kubur,
Yes the stock shown here is typically Algerian/Tunisian, (2 other Algerian guns shown) but does not resemble the SHAPE and PROFILE of the subject gun. It would appear that the lock has been identified as Portugese but the shape of the butt, although probably Balkan, has not yet been identified as ORIGINATING from a particular region, which is what Eftihis is trying to identify.
Stu
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