Bosnian Bichaq

[gp]

a nice piece of hand craft and art is this filigree (sterling) dagger belt buckle I recently purchased.

From filigree perspective it looks like Dalmatian, Bosnian or Montenegrin.
Also similar like the type of sterling brooch I found in Sarajevo, Kotor or Dubrovnik in the 1980ies .

This one looks the same, although the brooches were without the 2 dots on the grip. Looking close at the silver dots on the "bichaq" they might indicate as well a Caucasian origin like the grip of a kama / shalta / khanjali ...but these again do not have the curved blade as the Balkan bichaq or Ottoman handzjar... the dots could also be functional as a kind of support / firmness (which makes sense...)

Still a nice piece of art dating back to a wide period of 1880-1960 to hang above the Bosnian kama, bichaq and yataghan

[Gonzoadler]

Hello,

I think the miniature dagger of the belt is not a Kama or Khanjar, I would say it is a Bebut. These daggers are similar to Kamas and Kindjals, but they have a curved blade.

Regards
Robin

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by gp

a nice piece of hand craft and art is this filigree (sterling) dagger belt buckle I recently purchased.

From filigree perspective it looks like Dalmatian, Bosnian or Montenegrin.
Also similar like the type of sterling brooch I found in Sarajevo, Kotor or Dubrovnik in the 1980ies .

This is a Russian buckle. Buckles of this kind were often made of niello silver and often bore the inscription “Caucasus”.
But there were buckles just like yours:
https://www.vitber.com/lot/31228

Dagger - "bebut"

[gp]

Originally Posted by mahratt

This is a Russian buckle. Buckles of this kind were often made of niello silver and often bore the inscription “Caucasus”.
But there were buckles just like yours:
https://www.vitber.com/lot/31228

Dagger - "bebut"

Bolshoj spassiba. Very nice pieces, especially the one in the link and last picture: beautiful !
Guess they all are 84 zolotniki?

And guess I must now buy a Russian dagger to go with it….
bozje moj….again spending money...dawaij dawaij, pasjli pasjli ….:-)

Question for advice:


I found this description:

"Bebut – curve Caucasian dagger, which became widely known in the early 20th century, when it was adopted by the Russian army. The dagger is different curved shape and large size.
The origin of the dagger .

Curved blades – the hallmark of the East. And bebut is no exception, since it is originally a traditional Caucasian dagger. The name of the blade “bebut” comes from the Turkic word, which means “thigh”.

It’s hard to say when the story of this dagger began. It was spread only in the early twentieth century, when it became part of the armament of the Russian army. Presumably, the “ancestor” of the blade of such a shape is a curve or Persian Ottoman dagger.

In the late 19th century dagger Bebut was in use among the Cossacks. If the flat dagger was armed with all without exception, the curved blade was chosen by the scouts, since the thin and long blade provided the convenience of carrying a cold weapon in any situation.

Bebut is officially known since 1840 as part of the uniform of the Kuban Cossacks, but its history is much older. In General, earlier called the Bebut any dagger with a curved end on the blade, while now under this name is understood as “Bebut” model 1907.
Bebut in the Russian army

Cossack Bebut came into the Russian army in 1907. At this time there is a need for more weapons to replace the authorized artillery pieces. A knife with Bebut was easier to wield than a sword, besides, its form is considerably easier.

In the first years of the Bebut armed with only the higher ranks, but beginning in 1909 artillery Bebut was made available to all military. Despite the lack of tradition use daggers in Russian army, curved blade quickly became an indispensable part of weaponry.

In subsequent years, on the choice of this dagger did not have to regret, because the curved blade proved itself as a cutting, chopping and as a weapon. This is due to the peculiarities of the blade, its shape and methods of sharpening."

My question concerns the mentioning of the Kuban Cossacks: would this dagger thus be different from the dagger of the Zaporozhian Cossacks?

If so: what dagger would the Zaporozhian Cossacks have and use ?

[G. Mansfield]

Here is one to add for the records, acquired a few weeks ago from a friend.

-Geoff

[Ren Ren]

One of the most interesting knives I've seen in the past few years.

[Battara]

Gents, I love the belt buckles!

And that bichaq - Beautiful! Stunning! Is the hilt made of ivory and the scabbard silver"?

And by the way, if you ever want to throw this away please let me know (I'll now go back to hiding behind the trash cans )

[gp]

Originally Posted by Battara

Gents, I love the belt buckles!

And that bichaq - Beautiful! Stunning! Is the hilt made of ivory and the scabbard silver"?

And by the way, if you ever want to throw this away please let me know (I'll now go back to hiding behind the trash cans )

the scabbard is silver and the hilt could be ivory but also very fine quality horn

looks quite similar like this Bosnian one:
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.p...8&postcount=67

[gp]

Originally Posted by mahratt

This is a Russian buckle. Buckles of this kind were often made of niello silver and often bore the inscription “Caucasus”.
But there were buckles just like yours:
https://www.vitber.com/lot/31228

Dagger - "bebut"

next to the 2 buckles shown in the above reply by mahratt ( the 2 pictures again enclosed), I found a 3rd one / my 2nd which looks similar to the Caucasian one but without the name in ofcource Cyrillic.
Made in Niello silver - .875 (84 Zolotniki) with a 2nd Kokoshnik Moscow mark dating 1908-1917.

[gp]

bak 2 the bichaqs...


just bought this one. Lenght of a typical Sarajevo bichaq, the grip is a little more like a Yataghan but is not that rare to be seen either.

Strange is the fact that most Bosnian K.u.K made bichaqs (22-37 cm ones) have a long straight blade.
Only the "cutlery" type ( < 20 cm) ones have the Yataghan typical "curly" or "curved" or snakish shape blade.
And ofcourse the Yataghan themselves...
Also the decoration differs from the K.u.K. Habsburg period 1878-1918 ones and looks more like the Ottoman times art work from pre 1878
as can be seen in the bichaqs with Arab lettering.
So a kind of match / crossover? between two periods one might say perhaps ?

First time I encountered a Balkan and Bosnian bichaq with such a blade .

The scabbard is a "marriage" as it doesn't belong to this shape of blade.
No problem as I can use it for a “straight" blade bichaq without a scabbard.

But strange it is . Will post , if interest is there, more pics upon its arrival.

Your thoughts and comments please...?

thnx a lot!

Gunar

[gp]

Originally Posted by gp

bak 2 the bichaqs...


.
Also the decoration differs from the K.u.K. Habsburg period 1878-1918 ones and looks more like the Ottoman times art work from pre 1878
as can be seen in the bichaqs with Arab lettering.
So a kind of match / crossover? between two periods one might say perhaps ?

First time I encountered a Balkan and Bosnian bichaq with such a blade .


But strange it is . Will post , if interest is there, more pics upon its arrival.

Your thoughts and comments please...?

thnx a lot!

Gunar

it arrived and I found the answer(s) myself;

First the scabbard does clearly not belong and some one sold it to the previous owner as being one.Which it isn't.

Secondly, looking at the decoration this tells it all:

1. the Bosnian Turc language written in Arabic signs is correct, but the latin one is "upside down". Root cause: the man doing this was "Latin" illiterate...
Why ? the date tells it all :

2. 1878 is the year of the Treaty of San Stephano and also Berlin, which changed the map of Europe and was the prelude to both the Balkan Wars 1910-13 and the Great War or WWI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty..._other_regions


and coming back to the bichaq: the occupation of Bosnia by Habsburg and its insurrection in both 1878
so the maker had no clue how Latin writing looked like and hence the upside down "error" which is not seen in later knives, kamas, cakijas, bichaqs and yataghans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro...govina_in_1878
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Had%C5%BEi_Loja

which makes this bichaq unique and a "quicky":

being made just first half 1878 it had the Arab decoration, just to be added with the Latin in 1878 in the occupation year when Sarajevo was "apeaced" and the prohibition of bichaq and yataghan production not yet active (1878-1882) to sell to one of the sr. K.u.K. militairy staff in charge of Bosnia. The maker wanted quickly to make some money and adjusted it for sale to the new rulers . Who can blame him in those troubled days...? Think also of Indonesia and Holland and the Tjikeroehs production

It also explains the "yataghan"like snakish blade which is typical Ottoman and can only been seen in the early Habsburgian / K.u.K. years as later the blades were straight.

[Battara]

This is a really nice variant.

[gp]

talking about a variant or (to me a little at least) strange is this one I just puchased

Indeed a bichaq but not the regular "warrior" or combattant one, nor the one for ceremonial purposes (like after the Habsburg annexation).

Why?
Simple; its size is too small / short.

Dimensions:
total length 21,0 cm with scabbard
blade 19,5 cm - width 1,8 cm
handle/grip 9,5 cm

strange in my opinion is the handle /grip : not the typical "yataghan"type but an animal (looks like a deer)

at those time you didn't had such a thing like "artistic" freedom , nor where the makers that couageous or daring to try such a thing.. Specially in the Ottoman times. My guess would be that it was made for a child of either a (very) rich merchant or aristocrat in the Balkans.


remark: the decoration on the ferrule is very fine and not seen or hardly on bichaqs as is on this one...
the metal scabbard looks "scruffy"but my guess is that the leather on it has disappeared, hence leaving it "naked"


What do you think ?