Help on what I just bought....

Ian · 23rd September 2020, 10:47 AM

Aha! You ended up with it! I was watching but did not bid on it.

Very unusual piece. The blade reminds me somewhat, in shape at least, of a Chassepot bayonet or one of its variants. From what I can see in these pics, it is not a Chassepot but looks like one. I can't make up my mind whether the hilt is wooden or horn. The pommel looks like a horse hoof, but there is a ring protruding from the end also. And the D-guard ...

I hope somebody here has seen similar before.

Conduit · 23rd September 2020, 11:48 AM

Hilt is wood.
Mostly likely a homemade hunting dagger judging by the shape of hilt and quillon and lack of the maker mark.

Duccio · 23rd September 2020, 12:28 PM

Hello,
the blade actually has the shape of a bayonet "yataghan type", as was that of the chassepot, but the section of the blade was definitely different. Moreover, there were many bayonet models with that shape, in the mid-nineteenth century, and even the dimensions seem more those of a bayonet than that of a cavalry saber. To the eye the hilt really (made of horn?) has the shape of a horse's leg, complete with horseshoe, but it doesn't look like a standard military workmanship ... could it be a custom job for the recovery of a bayonet blade?
Very curious object, indeed!
And anyway, since it was a random offer, it could have been much worse ...

Conduit · 23rd September 2020, 01:27 PM

This blade has not been recovered from an yatagan bladed bayonet. All military issued yatagan bayonets have fullered blades.

blindside · 23rd September 2020, 02:27 PM

Thank you all, the hilt is horn.

Interested Party · 23rd September 2020, 04:13 PM

I hoped this would show up on the site. It looked like a converted bayonet but as mentioned before the cross section was wrong. Then there the snake motif to make matters more confusing. Then I thought possibly a pedang lurus for a second and finally a hunting sword. It confused me to the point I tried to grab it just to take a look at the metal for a bit of an answer but the price jumped at the last second. I was blindsided. Good job!

What can you see as far as the structure of the steel and construction methods?

Is the tang peened or threaded?

blindside · 24th September 2020, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

I hoped this would show up on the site. It looked like a converted bayonet but as mentioned before the cross section was wrong. Then there the snake motif to make matters more confusing. Then I thought possibly a pedang lurus for a second and finally a hunting sword. It confused me to the point I tried to grab it just to take a look at the metal for a bit of an answer but the price jumped at the last second. I was blindsided. Good job!

What can you see as far as the structure of the steel and construction methods?

Is the tang peened or threaded?

The tang is threaded, that metal loop is the threaded to hold the guard in place. I have not tried to fully disassemble the hilt.

The guard and decorative elements are non-magnetic but feel heavier than tin, maybe a white brass?

The metal of the blade doesn't appear to be notable.

Rick · 24th September 2020, 01:58 AM

Would the slot at the base of the knucklebow be intended for the attachment of a sword knot? Is that niello on the ring at the hoof? Would the three holes on the horseshoe be intended for decorative nails perhaps?

blindside · 24th September 2020, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Would the slot at the base of the knucklebow be intended for the attachment of a sword knot? Is that niello on the ring at the hoof? Would the three holes on the horseshoe be intended for decorative nails perhaps?

The four holes in the horseshoe have two remnants of nails going into the pommel and there is a hole where the third should go but that isn't visible under the D-guard. The fourth (top) is the remnants of a similar hole is visible where the horn has broken off.

I don't know if that is niello on the ring, it does appear slightly different than the pommel but I can't tell if that is just due to wear.

23rd September 2020, 04:13 PM	#6
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 392	I hoped this would show up on the site. It looked like a converted bayonet but as mentioned before the cross section was wrong. Then there the snake motif to make matters more confusing. Then I thought possibly a pedang lurus for a second and finally a hunting sword. It confused me to the point I tried to grab it just to take a look at the metal for a bit of an answer but the price jumped at the last second. I was blindsided. Good job! What can you see as far as the structure of the steel and construction methods? Is the tang peened or threaded? Last edited by Interested Party; 23rd September 2020 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Afterthought

23rd September 2020, 10:47 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,044	Aha! You ended up with it! I was watching but did not bid on it. Very unusual piece. The blade reminds me somewhat, in shape at least, of a Chassepot bayonet or one of its variants. From what I can see in these pics, it is not a Chassepot but looks like one. I can't make up my mind whether the hilt is wooden or horn. The pommel looks like a horse hoof, but there is a ring protruding from the end also. And the D-guard ... I hope somebody here has seen similar before.

23rd September 2020, 11:48 AM	#2
Conduit Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 30	Hilt is wood. Mostly likely a homemade hunting dagger judging by the shape of hilt and quillon and lack of the maker mark.

23rd September 2020, 12:28 PM	#3
Duccio Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Florence, Italy Posts: 64	Hello, the blade actually has the shape of a bayonet "yataghan type", as was that of the chassepot, but the section of the blade was definitely different. Moreover, there were many bayonet models with that shape, in the mid-nineteenth century, and even the dimensions seem more those of a bayonet than that of a cavalry saber. To the eye the hilt really (made of horn?) has the shape of a horse's leg, complete with horseshoe, but it doesn't look like a standard military workmanship ... could it be a custom job for the recovery of a bayonet blade? Very curious object, indeed! And anyway, since it was a random offer, it could have been much worse ...

23rd September 2020, 01:27 PM	#4
Conduit Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 30	This blade has not been recovered from an yatagan bladed bayonet. All military issued yatagan bayonets have fullered blades.

23rd September 2020, 02:27 PM	#5
blindside Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 33	Thank you all, the hilt is horn.

24th September 2020, 01:58 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	Would the slot at the base of the knucklebow be intended for the attachment of a sword knot? Is that niello on the ring at the hoof? Would the three holes on the horseshoe be intended for decorative nails perhaps?