Muslem knife for ID please

Interested Party · 23rd January 2024, 01:30 PM

Is it a pool and eye pattern welded blade, yes. Is it koftgari or painted I don't know. I blew up one of Ian's pictures and I could easily see the cross hatching scratched into the metal to hold the wire or whatever else is used to create these patterns. Once I saw it in that picture, I saw it in all of them. I would imagine that pool and eye is not new and that there are antique examples from all over the world. I don't have my books handy that I can bring up pictures to cite this point. The cartouche on the blade looks recent to my eye, once again with the hashing very visible and the application is wide and uniform, not a pre shaped wire to create more subtle lines. The blade does seem very flat, lacking medial ridges or defined grind lines, a little flat for a lenticular cross section.

Modern, maybe. The question I never hear asked is "Is this knife pretty?" I think it is. To me it looks like whoever made it had some talent and took some pride in their work. I think we do not give the Rajasthan workers enough credit. I wonder about the style of ornamentation. Is it a generic flower or a stylized version of a certain species? The style of the pattern seems from the northern Indian subcontinent, but I wonder more and more about how these patterns became folk art and where the various influences came to be. I would love to dig deeper into the history of these styles and motifs as they stretch from Asia into Europe and Africa and reverberate back again. I have definitely gotten worse presents from friends who felt bad for me because I had to buy old and damaged blades.

Well, enough musing for one morning. Time to go to work. I'm sorry I didn't have something more useful to add to the conversation.

Richard G · 23rd January 2024, 03:24 PM

The hilt and scabbard could be niello.
If you're lucky the hilt could be bidriware, I'm not so sure about the scabbard because most bidri I've seen has been on a relatively plain surface.
Best wishes
Richard

Ian · 24th January 2024, 02:18 AM

IP and Richard G,

Thank you both for taking up my request for technical information. Thank you also, IP, for noting that this knife and scabbard are indeed pleasing to the eye. My friend's wife thought it looked lovely and deserving of a gift to her husband. They are not wealthy people and this was a generous gift, taking into account their family budget, for a notable birthday. In the blow-up of the hilt that IP provided, there does indeed appear to be fine cross hatching for delicate koftgari work. I shall try to provide better pictures to show this more clearly.

IP, I agree that we sometimes overlook the technical expertise of today's Rajahstani craftsmen too quickly. Of the many examples presently coming from this State, there are certainly some well made items showing good technical skills. There is a tendency to dismiss modern decorative items as unworthy of consideration by serious collectors. In doing so, we overlook the ongoing traditional expertise present in Indian and other cultures. Collectors of Indonesian keris still recognize the mastery of techniques used by recent empus.

23rd January 2024, 01:30 PM	#1
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 392	Is it a pool and eye pattern welded blade, yes. Is it koftgari or painted I don't know. I blew up one of Ian's pictures and I could easily see the cross hatching scratched into the metal to hold the wire or whatever else is used to create these patterns. Once I saw it in that picture, I saw it in all of them. I would imagine that pool and eye is not new and that there are antique examples from all over the world. I don't have my books handy that I can bring up pictures to cite this point. The cartouche on the blade looks recent to my eye, once again with the hashing very visible and the application is wide and uniform, not a pre shaped wire to create more subtle lines. The blade does seem very flat, lacking medial ridges or defined grind lines, a little flat for a lenticular cross section. Modern, maybe. The question I never hear asked is "Is this knife pretty?" I think it is. To me it looks like whoever made it had some talent and took some pride in their work. I think we do not give the Rajasthan workers enough credit. I wonder about the style of ornamentation. Is it a generic flower or a stylized version of a certain species? The style of the pattern seems from the northern Indian subcontinent, but I wonder more and more about how these patterns became folk art and where the various influences came to be. I would love to dig deeper into the history of these styles and motifs as they stretch from Asia into Europe and Africa and reverberate back again. I have definitely gotten worse presents from friends who felt bad for me because I had to buy old and damaged blades. Well, enough musing for one morning. Time to go to work. I'm sorry I didn't have something more useful to add to the conversation. Attached Images Last edited by Interested Party; 23rd January 2024 at 01:41 PM.

23rd January 2024, 03:24 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 402	The hilt and scabbard could be niello. If you're lucky the hilt could be bidriware, I'm not so sure about the scabbard because most bidri I've seen has been on a relatively plain surface. Best wishes Richard

24th January 2024, 02:18 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,043	IP and Richard G, Thank you both for taking up my request for technical information. Thank you also, IP, for noting that this knife and scabbard are indeed pleasing to the eye. My friend's wife thought it looked lovely and deserving of a gift to her husband. They are not wealthy people and this was a generous gift, taking into account their family budget, for a notable birthday. In the blow-up of the hilt that IP provided, there does indeed appear to be fine cross hatching for delicate koftgari work. I shall try to provide better pictures to show this more clearly. IP, I agree that we sometimes overlook the technical expertise of today's Rajahstani craftsmen too quickly. Of the many examples presently coming from this State, there are certainly some well made items showing good technical skills. There is a tendency to dismiss modern decorative items as unworthy of consideration by serious collectors. In doing so, we overlook the ongoing traditional expertise present in Indian and other cultures. Collectors of Indonesian keris still recognize the mastery of techniques used by recent empus.