Help ID'ing 3 Kris

Mickey the Finn · 20th September 2021, 12:44 PM

Any insights into the origins of these Madurese "warangka kucing"? I've seen one or two before, and I happen to like cats, is all... I understand cats are the friend of the bibliophile, and that Islam has a certain affinity for cats... Why are cats not featured on handles? I've seen Youtube footage of a housecat sending an interloping cobra on it's way, but... Why on Madurese warangka, and no others that I know of? And I'm not concerned with the keris Singobarong (spelling as per Ki mpu Djeno Harumbrodjo) here; just the "cat warangka" (and any cat handles [no obviously leonine handles], whether they are Madurese or from somewhere else (if anyone knows of any from somewhere else in the Nusantara).

A. G. Maisey · 20th September 2021, 01:01 PM

Post #4.

The Dutch Lion of Orange.

David · 20th September 2021, 01:48 PM

Yes Mickey, as Alan has pointed out, the lion on this wrongko is a reference to the Dutch Lion of Orange. It has nothing to do with any Islamic beliefs or anything indigenous to Madurese culture.

Mickey the Finn · 31st October 2021, 11:36 PM

Thank you. I had thought that these warangka might have had an older, more esoteric origin and history, perhaps shrouded in the mists of antiquity.

The "mercenary motivation" casts a cold, clear light on the subject.

Mickey

A. G. Maisey · 20th November 2021, 12:22 AM

Mickey, I've just been rereading a few older threads, and I've noted your "mercenary"response.

I might be wrong, but I feel that I might not have been sufficiently clear in my earlier post.

My meaning of "mercenary" in my earlier post was intended to refer to soldiers who come from a different society than the country that they are serving, thus they are "mercenary soldiers", or "mercenaries".

Nothing to do with trade or commerce, except that they are selling their services.

The origin of this style of wrongko is the same as the other carved Madura wrongkos:- folk art.

Mickey the Finn · 13th February 2022, 08:44 AM

Thank you, Alan.

You were quite clear in your earlier post. I sometimes use figures of speech or double entendres in a literal way.

My apologies for not having replied sooner. My Mother suddenly gave up knitting for good on the day before Christmas Eve of last year, and I've been occupied with adjusting to this new state of affairs.

Sincerely and Respectfully,

Mickey

20th September 2021, 12:44 PM	#1
Mickey the Finn Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 90	Any insights into the origins of these Madurese "warangka kucing"? I've seen one or two before, and I happen to like cats, is all... I understand cats are the friend of the bibliophile, and that Islam has a certain affinity for cats... Why are cats not featured on handles? I've seen Youtube footage of a housecat sending an interloping cobra on it's way, but... Why on Madurese warangka, and no others that I know of? And I'm not concerned with the keris Singobarong (spelling as per Ki mpu Djeno Harumbrodjo) here; just the "cat warangka" (and any cat handles [no obviously leonine handles], whether they are Madurese or from somewhere else (if anyone knows of any from somewhere else in the Nusantara). Last edited by Mickey the Finn; 20th September 2021 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Specificity. More precise wording. Orthography.

20th September 2021, 01:48 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,047	Yes Mickey, as Alan has pointed out, the lion on this wrongko is a reference to the Dutch Lion of Orange. It has nothing to do with any Islamic beliefs or anything indigenous to Madurese culture. Last edited by David; 21st September 2021 at 12:59 PM.

20th November 2021, 12:22 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	Mickey, I've just been rereading a few older threads, and I've noted your "mercenary"response. I might be wrong, but I feel that I might not have been sufficiently clear in my earlier post. My meaning of "mercenary" in my earlier post was intended to refer to soldiers who come from a different society than the country that they are serving, thus they are "mercenary soldiers", or "mercenaries". Nothing to do with trade or commerce, except that they are selling their services. The origin of this style of wrongko is the same as the other carved Madura wrongkos:- folk art. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 20th November 2021 at 12:59 AM.

20th September 2021, 01:01 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	Post #4. The Dutch Lion of Orange.

31st October 2021, 11:36 PM	#4
Mickey the Finn Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 90	Re: Leeuw/ Kat warangka Thank you. I had thought that these warangka might have had an older, more esoteric origin and history, perhaps shrouded in the mists of antiquity. The "mercenary motivation" casts a cold, clear light on the subject. Mickey

13th February 2022, 08:44 AM	#6
Mickey the Finn Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 90	Thank you, Alan. You were quite clear in your earlier post. I sometimes use figures of speech or double entendres in a literal way. My apologies for not having replied sooner. My Mother suddenly gave up knitting for good on the day before Christmas Eve of last year, and I've been occupied with adjusting to this new state of affairs. Sincerely and Respectfully, Mickey