Shotley Bridge swordmakers

urbanspaceman · 29th April 2024, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

My collaborator Paul bought his sword and casket from the son of a man called Stafford.
Reference my short history above... that is quite some coincidence!

My apologies for my carelessness; it was the Earl of Strafford not Stafford. Ooops!

Peter Hudson · 30th April 2024, 02:31 PM

There is an excellent picture of the subject at https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/s.../?mkey=mw06088

urbanspaceman · 30th April 2024, 06:23 PM

Hi Peter. Thank-you, a good shot; I will send it to Paul.
Curious sword he is wearing.
I often wonder just how accurate artists were; artistic license prevailing always.

Jim McDougall · 1st May 2024, 01:08 AM

I think as a rule, in accord with the late Nick Norman ("Rapier and Smallsword 1460-1820", 1979) he based his entire work on hilts taken from portraits as in his view portraits of individuals tended to be accurate, including the swords they wore. In other artwork, especially Rembrandt for example, his 'license' was well known.

Sets the mind to wondering!

Radboud · 1st May 2024, 02:52 AM

On the artistic licence, I think a lot will depend on the wealth of the customer. The less wealthy the more generic the clothes and accessories will be.

One needs to consider that most of the art work would have been completed without the subject present. There would have been a sitting to get the face and hands correct, but the rest would have been completed from props. So in the case of a wealthier subject the artist may have had a studio onsite and had direct access to their clothes and accruments.

For a less wealthy subject, they may have needed to taken drawings and notes on site and then completed the work in their own studio, or had a studio sitting for the basics then completed the rest from their own props.

urbanspaceman · 3rd May 2024, 11:47 AM

Thank-you Radboud. Makes perfect sense.
I do, however, see hilts on aristocracy portraits here in England that are totally unknown to me, although I am new to this game.
Referring back to that portrait, it is difficult to establish - to my untrained eye - where the hilt starts and ends; can anyone define it for me please?

urbanspaceman · 3rd May 2024, 11:49 AM

Here is the portrait in question, save anyone chasing the link (thank-you by the way Peter).

30th April 2024, 06:23 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 517	Sword in the picture Hi Peter. Thank-you, a good shot; I will send it to Paul. Curious sword he is wearing. I often wonder just how accurate artists were; artistic license prevailing always.

3rd May 2024, 11:47 AM	#6
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 517	artistic license Thank-you Radboud. Makes perfect sense. I do, however, see hilts on aristocracy portraits here in England that are totally unknown to me, although I am new to this game. Referring back to that portrait, it is difficult to establish - to my untrained eye - where the hilt starts and ends; can anyone define it for me please?

3rd May 2024, 11:49 AM	#7
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 517	ps Here is the portrait in question, save anyone chasing the link (thank-you by the way Peter). Attached Images

30th April 2024, 02:31 PM	#2
Peter Hudson Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 311	There is an excellent picture of the subject at https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/s.../?mkey=mw06088

1st May 2024, 01:08 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	I think as a rule, in accord with the late Nick Norman ("Rapier and Smallsword 1460-1820", 1979) he based his entire work on hilts taken from portraits as in his view portraits of individuals tended to be accurate, including the swords they wore. In other artwork, especially Rembrandt for example, his 'license' was well known. Sets the mind to wondering!

1st May 2024, 02:52 AM	#5
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 226	On the artistic licence, I think a lot will depend on the wealth of the customer. The less wealthy the more generic the clothes and accessories will be. One needs to consider that most of the art work would have been completed without the subject present. There would have been a sitting to get the face and hands correct, but the rest would have been completed from props. So in the case of a wealthier subject the artist may have had a studio onsite and had direct access to their clothes and accruments. For a less wealthy subject, they may have needed to taken drawings and notes on site and then completed the work in their own studio, or had a studio sitting for the basics then completed the rest from their own props.