keris palembang

sirek · 17th August 2020, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Alan,

Well, the square blumbangan points to the Mataram line (including extant offspring substyles). The ron dha are very crisp - most old blades will exhibit worn down and restored greneng.

From the excellent state of preservation, I'd guess that this blade entered a colonial collection right after manufacture; there even seem to be some working scratches left at the base.

I believe that this blade got crafted in Palembang following old Mataram style; if the ri padan were not sharp on the inside curve (difficult to establish from the posted pics - an angled view would help), this would support the notion.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai, are these pictures any help?

(and you are absolutely right, the hilt and the selut are of inferior quality and will definitely be replaced in the future

)

kai · 17th August 2020, 06:25 PM

Hello Sirek,

Yes, this confirms my suggestion that this blade most likely got crafted in Palembang (this feature seems to be restricted to blades from southern Sumatra (and, possibly, Sunda).

Thus, we may have a legitimate reason to assign this blade to "tangguh" Palembang/Lampung even if these blades happen to copy several other styles/eras.

I'll try to answer Alan's question which I understand to ask this: "If we were considering this blade as originating from the land of Jawa, which of the major tangguh can it be attributed to?"

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 17th August 2020, 07:45 PM

My impression is similar to Kai's that the blade is more probably from Palembang origin than from Central Java, so the tangguh identification may not be relevant? I am excluding the tangguh kamardikan as the blade does not look very recent.

kai · 17th August 2020, 10:24 PM

Hello Alan,

Ok, let's assume for this mental exercise that this blade really was from the land of Jawa...

We're only looking at the major classifications and being Jawa-centristic pretty much ignore any peripheral origins...

I already stated that the blade clearly is from the Mataram line.

While the garap and some of the prabot may be a tad stiff (lambe gajah, gandik, etc.) and the greneng not cut to perfection, it might still be old Mataram; I'm just trying to imagine 2 centuries of maintenance by acid washing and just about all of these detractions will be pretty much gone for good or restored to current tastes!

The elephant trunk seems to have quite a bit of substance and will tend to loose less material from erosion; however, by modern standards it could be a bit heavier to begin with. This, coupled with a slight slant of the gandik, would make me to also consider Madura Sepuh. If this was an old survivor from any European kunstkammer, I'd need a lot more time for detailed comparisons. Given a more realistic timeframe of about 200 years, I'd be inclined to opt for the old Madura classification.

So, to wrap things up: Do we have a Madurese craftsman living in Palembang and trying to copy old Mataram style?

Regards,
Kai

17th August 2020, 06:25 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,221	Hello Sirek, Yes, this confirms my suggestion that this blade most likely got crafted in Palembang (this feature seems to be restricted to blades from southern Sumatra (and, possibly, Sunda). Thus, we may have a legitimate reason to assign this blade to "tangguh" Palembang/Lampung even if these blades happen to copy several other styles/eras. I'll try to answer Alan's question which I understand to ask this: "If we were considering this blade as originating from the land of Jawa, which of the major tangguh can it be attributed to?" Regards, Kai

17th August 2020, 07:45 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	My impression is similar to Kai's that the blade is more probably from Palembang origin than from Central Java, so the tangguh identification may not be relevant? I am excluding the tangguh kamardikan as the blade does not look very recent.

17th August 2020, 10:24 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,221	Hello Alan, Ok, let's assume for this mental exercise that this blade really was from the land of Jawa... We're only looking at the major classifications and being Jawa-centristic pretty much ignore any peripheral origins... I already stated that the blade clearly is from the Mataram line. While the garap and some of the prabot may be a tad stiff (lambe gajah, gandik, etc.) and the greneng not cut to perfection, it might still be old Mataram; I'm just trying to imagine 2 centuries of maintenance by acid washing and just about all of these detractions will be pretty much gone for good or restored to current tastes! The elephant trunk seems to have quite a bit of substance and will tend to loose less material from erosion; however, by modern standards it could be a bit heavier to begin with. This, coupled with a slight slant of the gandik, would make me to also consider Madura Sepuh. If this was an old survivor from any European kunstkammer, I'd need a lot more time for detailed comparisons. Given a more realistic timeframe of about 200 years, I'd be inclined to opt for the old Madura classification. So, to wrap things up: Do we have a Madurese craftsman living in Palembang and trying to copy old Mataram style? Regards, Kai