Afghan Tabarzin

[RobT]

kronckew,

I have two of these axes (not as nice as yours) and I wonder if they weren’t made for the native population rather than for the bring back market. The pierced and inlaid heads appear to require a good bit more time and effort than is typically lavished on tourist items. I realize that they wouldn’t stand up to field use but they would be entirely adequate as “Sunday go to meetin’” versions meant to serve as a side arm as well as a necessary symbolic accoutrement for a fully enfranchised male member of the culture.
In any event, I have an axe head stamped “INDIA” (see attached) which is identical in size (without the haft eye) and profile to the type in question but the head of my axe is not pierced and has a haft eye instead of the relatively flimsy screw-on eye that found on most of the pierced versions. As can be seen by the dimensions below, the head is far thicker than any of the pierced versions and the eye is sized to accommodate a hefty haft. It is certainly made for heavy use.
Dimensions:
Length of bit (from top to bottom), about 5” (12.7cm)
Size of head (excluding the haft eye), about 4.75” (12.065cm)
Overall size of head (including haft eye), about 6.75” (15.24cm)
Head thickness (just before haft eye), about 7/16” (1.111cm) with distal taper (at start of edge grind) to about 1/8” (3.175mm)
Haft eye, about 1-7/8” long by 1.25” wide (4.76cm x 3.175cm)

Sincerely,
RobT

[kronckew]

Yes, very similar in shape, I suspect the more mundane undecorated ones are indeed for locals & every day use, while the pierced and decorated ones are for war, status, and parade use. The ones with the screw on heads are likely for display only, a 'feature' allowing they to be packed easier for shipping home.

[RobT]

kronckew,

The use of shields and or chain mail was common in the sub-continent. I’ve not seen any axe head of the pierced variety that I believed robust enough to stand up to being used against such defenses or to have sufficient heft to deal an effective blow against same. Traditional Persian and Indo-Persian tabor zin are much heavier than any of these style axe heads (even my made in India one). Not only are the traditional tabor zin stout enough to survive hitting armor, they have enough gravitas to defeat it.
I don’t think the screw-tops should be relegated to wall hanger status for two reasons. One, cutting screw threads seems like more work than would be expended on a tourist/bring back item. Two, the construction appears to be sufficient for civilian altercations because the combatants wouldn’t be using shields or armor. If greater strength were deemed necessary, the screw-top heads could be more firmly affixed by applying lathi or some other vegetable epoxy to the threads.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Sakalord364]

Originally Posted by RobT

kronckew,

I have two of these axes (not as nice as yours) and I wonder if they weren’t made for the native population rather than for the bring back market. The pierced and inlaid heads appear to require a good bit more time and effort than is typically lavished on tourist items. I realize that they wouldn’t stand up to field use but they would be entirely adequate as “Sunday go to meetin’” versions meant to serve as a side arm as well as a necessary symbolic accoutrement for a fully enfranchised male member of the culture.
In any event, I have an axe head stamped “INDIA” (see attached) which is identical in size (without the haft eye) and profile to the type in question but the head of my axe is not pierced and has a haft eye instead of the relatively flimsy screw-on eye that found on most of the pierced versions. As can be seen by the dimensions below, the head is far thicker than any of the pierced versions and the eye is sized to accommodate a hefty haft. It is certainly made for heavy use.

Do you believe this Indian axehead has any connection to the Afghan example, or could it just be a coincidence in terms of design?

[RobT]

Sakalord 364,

Aside from its thickness and haft eye, my “India” stamped axe head is a virtually exact overlay for the two pierced axe heads that I have. The Pashtun people are present in large numbers in Pakistan as well as in India (known as Pathans in Hindustani) so I would suppose that the type of axe head in question is commonly found in all three countries. Consider also that my blade is stamped “India” which indicates manufacture in relatively large quantities for export as well as for domestic consumption. I believe all evidence points toward my axe head being a working tool version of the more fancy pierced type.

Sincerely,
RobT

[C4RL]

Put "viking axe head" into Google and you can see as many heads as you like the same shape as the Indian stamped one.
I'm not making any judgement about the origins of any head being discussed here as I don't know, I'm just pointing out it's by no means a shape unique to one country/culture.

The first thing that sprang to my mind seeing the O.Ps images was "Fokos" before reading it in the text.

[C4RL]

Originally Posted by RobT

I believe all evidence points toward my axe head being a working tool version of the more fancy pierced type.

What evidence? I agree that there isn't any....

Like I say you can believe whatever want.

India (& Pakistan) turn out a huge amount of forged bladed items in styles from all over the world, often being sold on ebay and other places, it wouldn't suprise me if your Indian head was simply an Indian "Viking head"* repro.

But I'll drop it now, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And apologies O.P as this has had very little to do with your question! ;-)

Regards, Carl.

* The general "slang" term for a head this style.

[Peter Hudson]

An example worth consideration is the Shihuh Axe of the Mussandam Peninsula off Northern Oman (also carried as a camel stick in the Wahiiba sands of Oman)...The weapon is called a Jerrs probably from the Persian Gerrs for mace. It is more of a badge of Office than a weapon although they say that the bigger format was used as an axe... The Jury is out on that issue... and may always be! However compare away and see http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ighlight=jerrs

Peter Hudson.

[kronckew]

My jerz, massandam axe in-hand for size comparison.
My Afghani perforated one is slightly bigger .

[Peter Hudson]

Reference;
A. Forum Library. The Mussandam Axe. Post 21. http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ighlight=jerrs


Kronckew, Very nice...however I think what you have is the other variant from the Wahiiba in North Eastern Oman. This second type is a camel riders stick without which the camel is most reluctant to react to any instructions ... Where did you get it? Is the stick original to the axe head... I think so. That makes it a Wahiiba axe...called a Quddum on two counts...
1. The simple white coloured shaft ...and
2. The almost devoid decoration to the axehead.

Dont get me wrong... Wahiiba Quddum axes are almost identical and far less studied than Mussandam ones... My view is that they are linked and many years ago one style split away and created the other.

The great expert on Jerrs axes or as they are also known as Shihuh Axes or Jerrs...is the curator at Al Ain Museum ... Dr Waleed who did a thesis on them...Peter Hudson.