Sossun Pattah??

[shayde78]

Having received authorization to post the following pictures, I offer some examples of blades with similar curves, albeit none share the blade profile exactly, not are these from blades mounted in the typical tulwar hilt. Still, perhaps they can shine more of a light on intended function and/or region of the sub-continent where this shape was more common.

All of these examples are from Artzi's site. I am grateful he archives items that have been sold for others to use as reference. If you read this, thank you. To reiterate, all the examples below are listed as SOLD. If I have made an error, the moderators are welcome to remove.

The first example is to illustrate what would be more of a yataghan shape. This is to illustrate that the example that started this thread diverges significantly from this shape.

The second example starts to approximate the shape in question, but the second curve is still less pronounced.

Examples 3-5 show a similar curvature, but the blade gets markedly thicker towards the point, establishing these as effective choppers. (I think #5 is the one Artzi uses as his logo)

Examples 6-8 show similar blade profiles, but all different forms from the example upon which this thread is focused.

Overall, thoughts on any analysis these additional examples provide?

[Bryce]

This comparison photo with a British 1796 light cavalry sabre illustrates the "point" a little better. With a typical sabre, in order to deliver the point to the target, the user has to drop their wrist. With a recurve, the wrist can remain in a stronger, more neutral position.
Cheers,
Bryce

[shayde78]

Originally Posted by Bryce

This comparison photo with a British 1796 light cavalry sabre illustrates the "point" a little better. With a typical sabre, in order to deliver the point to the target, the user has to drop their wrist. With a recurve, the wrist can remain in a stronger, more neutral position.
Cheers,
Bryce

Bryce,

You are right about the orientation, and how this recurve design makes a thrust with the point much more efficient. I had to take my sword back in hand to fully appreciate what you were describing, and how it compares to the more common saber-bladed design. However, one additional thing I noticed, that I never really noticed before, is that the disc pommel of a typical tulwar hilt interferes with the wrist if you try to hold it like a thrusting sword. I'll try to take pictures and compare how the ergonomics revel themselves between this example, and one of my smallswords or my Pappenheim. In short, the roundish pommel on these swords designed for the thrust lies flat along the wrist when delivering a thrust. The tulwar disc does not. I know there has been much discussion about how the tulwar's hilt facilitates a draw cut through ergonomics alone. I always found that ot be true, but never really considered how it might limit other types of attacks with the blade.

All of that said, for the example you show with a Western style stirrup hilt, the thrust could be delivered quite efficiently.

[shayde78]

I was reading this thread and in post #2, Philip states that Indian blades with multiple narrow fullers are associated with the 18th and 19th century. It occurred to me that, unless I missed it, no one offered an opinion about the possible age of this sword (whatever name we decide to call it). Any thoughts? Could it be as old as late 18th-early 19th century? Also, I know my pictures may prevent a good estimate from being made, but reading Philip's comments made me think the fullers alone might give an indication.

thanks, as always!