Old sword or fake?

PeterP · 1st November 2014, 10:42 PM

At my workplace, an opera house, we have quite a large weapons room. We have several hundred swords in storage. Most of them are your typical theatre replicas, but there are also quite a few original ones. Most of them are quite straightforward old police sables, but some are more intriguing. From this one I always wondered if it's an original, older sword. The patina and the way the handle are aged suggest an older date, but looks can deceive. So, if somebody could give an opinion about this sword I would be grateful.

JamesKelly · 1st November 2014, 11:51 PM

those four holes near top of the hilt look very neat, like they had been drilled by a modern steel bit.

M ELEY · 2nd November 2014, 01:08 AM

My guess is that yours is a Victorian copy of an original. As you may know, during the 19th c., it was quite the fad to have old weapons to line one's library with. The demand became so high that armorers created copies of original pieces, some with more embellishments. Sometimes, the blades might be original or the whole piece was fabricated. Acid was used to artificially age the pieces, but in that they were from the 19th c., some developed their own patina over the years. The blade could be original?, but the grip on the hilt looks more decorative/ flimsy(i.e. Victorian copy) to me. Hard to tell and I'll wait to hear what the others say. Perhaps it's a real 17th c. broadsword-

If not, the 19th c. pieces still command good prices, just not what the original ones might bring. Theater companies seem to naturally attract the Victorian types, as they were donated for plays and productions.
Mark

fernando · 2nd November 2014, 11:30 AM

Yes, these things are so cared of, that can easily blind you.
James made a good point on the 'pommel' pits.
The blade looks fine, though. Maybe more pictures of it could help figure out.

ulfberth · 22nd November 2014, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterP

At my workplace, an opera house, we have quite a large weapons room. We have several hundred swords in storage. Most of them are your typical theatre replicas, but there are also quite a few original ones. Most of them are quite straightforward old police sables, but some are more intriguing. From this one I always wondered if it's an original, older sword. The patina and the way the handle are aged suggest an older date, but looks can deceive. So, if somebody could give an opinion about this sword I would be grateful.

Hi Peter,

That is a 19th century piece 100 %, Both the guard and the blade.
It is build in the 19 century manner and with a typical 19th century blade.
These type of blade's can be found on French Cuirassiers, infantry swords and hunting daggers from the mid 19th century.
From the look of it the maker never intended to make a forgery, but he did build a real sword of solid quality, perhaps a bit to solid because if you would compare it to e real one of that type you would see that this blade is too thick, especially near the edges.
It is an interesting post and please post again if you have things or thoughts you want to share.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

theswordcollector · 13th December 2014, 10:12 PM

Early 19th century piece good quality work well executed.

1st November 2014, 10:42 PM	#1
PeterP Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 15	Old sword or fake? At my workplace, an opera house, we have quite a large weapons room. We have several hundred swords in storage. Most of them are your typical theatre replicas, but there are also quite a few original ones. Most of them are quite straightforward old police sables, but some are more intriguing. From this one I always wondered if it's an original, older sword. The patina and the way the handle are aged suggest an older date, but looks can deceive. So, if somebody could give an opinion about this sword I would be grateful. Attached Images

1st November 2014, 11:51 PM	#2
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	those four holes near top of the hilt look very neat, like they had been drilled by a modern steel bit.

2nd November 2014, 01:08 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	My guess is that yours is a Victorian copy of an original. As you may know, during the 19th c., it was quite the fad to have old weapons to line one's library with. The demand became so high that armorers created copies of original pieces, some with more embellishments. Sometimes, the blades might be original or the whole piece was fabricated. Acid was used to artificially age the pieces, but in that they were from the 19th c., some developed their own patina over the years. The blade could be original?, but the grip on the hilt looks more decorative/ flimsy(i.e. Victorian copy) to me. Hard to tell and I'll wait to hear what the others say. Perhaps it's a real 17th c. broadsword- If not, the 19th c. pieces still command good prices, just not what the original ones might bring. Theater companies seem to naturally attract the Victorian types, as they were donated for plays and productions. Mark

2nd November 2014, 11:30 AM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Yes, these things are so cared of, that can easily blind you. James made a good point on the 'pommel' pits. The blade looks fine, though. Maybe more pictures of it could help figure out.

13th December 2014, 10:12 PM	#6
theswordcollector Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Berlin Posts: 48	Early 19th century piece good quality work well executed.