REGULATION KALEWANG/PEDANG MARSOSE ( aka Klewang/Kelewang ):

[ruiter58]

Hello Amuk Murugul,

Thanks for showing these klewangs (or Kelewangs) and the information. I collect klewangs for several years now and still I do not have all the inormation I would like to have. The book "Klewang" is very helpfull but is focussed on the museum collection. The book is not intended to be used to find out when or where your klewang is manufactured.

So, if you don't mind, I have a lot of questions.

- You have Hembrug klewangs in your collection and you have the year of manufacture. I have 6 Hembrug klewangs and I wondered how to determine their year of manufacture. For instance, I have a Hembrug M1911, marked with an "H" under a crown and has a brass plate on the basket stating P.A.N. 1499. The crown/H indicates inspector J.C.Harnas but I have no idea when this mark was used. I also found that the brass plate indicates it's use on Moerdara after 1931 by the Police forces. Is it possible to find out the year or period of manufacture?

- How do I recognize a Lilley-Ames klewang? Or is the klewang similar to the Vince but without the Vince mark? The one with the bakelite scales I know as the M1940 (based on the "Klewang" book)

- In fig 9, the pre-regulation Klewangs, you refer to the top one as Kalewang Djago ( De Haan ) 1875. Where does the "de Haan" come from? "Haan" is the Dutch word for "Rooster" and, according to the book "Klewang", de "Haan(-tjes)" klewang is the oldest type of klewang. Are there any marks on this Klewang?

Thanks and once again, nice collection!

Kind regards,
Ron de Ruiter
Netherlands

[Ian]

Interesting thread guys.

Krockew, I note the one that you call a hunting sword is very similar in style to the swords produced in Tjikeroeh and nearby areas of Westen Java in the early 20th C. The engraved fuller, acorn finials on the clam shell guard, the slightly curved grip with more acorn insignia, the two ferrules and a full tang with threaded end to accept a screw are all typical of the locally made version. There was often a marking of TJIKR or TJIKEROEH on the reverse side of the ricasso and usually a date. With plain steel blades, the locally made swords were of good quality and presumably made for Europeans.

Here are some previous discussions of the Dutch klewang and its variants:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1132
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=948
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4250

[kronckew]

yes, info worth repeating for the new members, here's a thread we prepared earlier: LINKY

as you note, probably commissioned by the dutch for their own use. marked TJIKEROEH and 1906. my 'hunter' is a tad longer in the blade than the std. hembrug/milsco miilitary ones.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo Ron,

Originally Posted by ruiter58

- You have Hembrug klewangs in your collection and you have the year of manufacture. I have 6 Hembrug klewangs and I wondered how to determine their year of manufacture. For instance, I have a Hembrug M1911, marked with an "H" under a crown and has a brass plate on the basket stating P.A.N. 1499. The crown/H indicates inspector J.C.Harnas but I have no idea when this mark was used. I also found that the brass plate indicates it's use on Moerdara after 1931 by the Police forces. Is it possible to find out the year or period of manufacture?

- P.A.N. = West & East- Madoera
1499 = Weapon number
You have to be sure the stamp belongs to the right person. Look closely at the type of crown and the font. There were many inspectors who had the same initial in their surname; there were at least two HARNASes; A.G and J.C.H. Once the right person has been determined, find find out when they were likely to have stamped the item. Any kalewang produced in HEMBRUG is unlikely to have been produced prior to 1912 and even then, only in insignificant ‘test’ numbers, as they didn’t have the capability. Other clues could be other signs/markings on the kalewang or sheath. Remember that 1931 was only when the directive was issued regarding the brass plates. In actual fact, many items prior to this were subsequently marked in compliance.

Originally Posted by ruiter58

- How do I recognize a Lilley-Ames klewang? Or is the klewang similar to the Vince but without the Vince mark? The one with the bakelite scales I know as the M1940 (based on the "Klewang" book)

- Lilley-Ames: similar to M1911, but no stamp on blade, sharp clip-point, blue blade, bakelite machete-handle ( I’ve haven't seen one with wooden scales), ‘uneven’ shaving/sharpening of cutting-edge. ( Unlikely to have been produced at ACW-Bdg, as they had no such facility other than to assemble/repair. )

Originally Posted by ruiter58

- In fig 9, the pre-regulation Klewangs, you refer to the top one as Kalewang Djago ( De Haan ) 1875. Where does the "de Haan" come from? "Haan" is the Dutch word for "Rooster" and, according to the book "Klewang", de "Haan(-tjes)" klewang is the oldest type of klewang. Are there any marks on this Klewang?

- If you go to the info again, you will see why items nos.1 & 3 shared the same nickname. These item were purchased privately by soldiers as part of their field equipment ( as, in many cases, issued items were deemed inappropriate/impractical when one’s life depended on it ).

Bottom line is: confidence and faith in one’s ‘best’ guesstimation and be prepared to be wrong.

Best,