Pappenheimer (and rapiers in general) hilt length

midelburgo · 10th April 2023, 09:41 PM

I have this thing which I suspect it could be a Swedish haudegen from the time of Lützen.
Measurements are something like 117cm total length, 93cm blade and 1495gr total weight. There is a thumb ring. The handle shows wire marks. The front edge seems to have been sharpened more often than the back.
In spite of the huge size and weight, it handles nicely, specially with a gauntlet.

It could be a Victorian monstruosity as well.

Teisani · 10th April 2023, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midelburgo

It could be a Victorian monstruosity as well.

The side branches on your rapier hilt remind me a bit of this An XI sword. Maybe inspiration. It could indeed be Victorian.
https://www.sabresempire.com/2012/01...armee.html?m=1

Triarii · 11th April 2023, 11:55 AM

My hand (not very big) in my Pappenheimer. This has a rapier blade, so may have been for civilian use.

10thRoyal · 11th April 2023, 05:27 PM

These things must have been a royal pain to lug around. The number of times day they must have gotten caught on a rail or doorframe is absurd.

werecow · 12th April 2023, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thRoyal

These things must have been a royal pain to lug around. The number of times day they must have gotten caught on a rail or doorframe is absurd.

Rapiers have a definite peacock's tail quality to them.

Triarii · 13th April 2023, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thRoyal

These things must have been a royal pain to lug around. The number of times day they must have gotten caught on a rail or doorframe is absurd.

From reenactment experience - yes, they do. Good at annoying other people too. I can see why so-called scarf / town / pillow swords became popular. Pepys comments in Jan 1659/60 on a Colonels large sword catching people whilst out walking.

midelburgo · 13th April 2023, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thRoyal

These things must have been a royal pain to lug around. The number of times day they must have gotten caught on a rail or doorframe is absurd.

You know, Spanish rapier scabbards used to have a coil at the bottom and a release mechanism at the mouth, so the blade literally jumped out of the scabbard. You could have a Spaniard of 1meter 60 trying to unsheath a 1meter 20 rapier.

urbanspaceman · 14th April 2023, 12:12 PM

I acquired this recently purely because it intrigued me and it was very cheap.
It was made by Pillin and Co. for a member of the Knights of Malta which were an off-shoot of the Knights of St John... apparently (see labels).
The blade is from Thurkle with a T slug.
Anyway, the point is this: the hilt is 8&1/4 inches top to bottom and the same from quillon tip to quillon tip. The pommel is huge and very heavy.
On this 31 inch blade is is decidedly unbalanced.
Pillin must have referenced a traditional example, copied the hilt but decided against a longer blade.
ps
The Thurkle history is an interesting one.

10th April 2023, 09:41 PM	#1
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 248	I have this thing which I suspect it could be a Swedish haudegen from the time of Lützen. Measurements are something like 117cm total length, 93cm blade and 1495gr total weight. There is a thumb ring. The handle shows wire marks. The front edge seems to have been sharpened more often than the back. In spite of the huge size and weight, it handles nicely, specially with a gauntlet. It could be a Victorian monstruosity as well. Attached Images

11th April 2023, 11:55 AM	#3
Triarii Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Bristol Posts: 99	My hand (not very big) in my Pappenheimer. This has a rapier blade, so may have been for civilian use. Attached Images

14th April 2023, 12:12 PM	#8
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 517	modern take on a Pappenheimer I acquired this recently purely because it intrigued me and it was very cheap. It was made by Pillin and Co. for a member of the Knights of Malta which were an off-shoot of the Knights of St John... apparently (see labels). The blade is from Thurkle with a T slug. Anyway, the point is this: the hilt is 8&1/4 inches top to bottom and the same from quillon tip to quillon tip. The pommel is huge and very heavy. On this 31 inch blade is is decidedly unbalanced. Pillin must have referenced a traditional example, copied the hilt but decided against a longer blade. ps The Thurkle history is an interesting one. Attached Images

11th April 2023, 05:27 PM	#4
10thRoyal Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 60	These things must have been a royal pain to lug around. The number of times day they must have gotten caught on a rail or doorframe is absurd.