Use of the Sword by American Indian Tribes

[Edster]

David,

Well said. It would be interesting to learn how they got their raw material. Did they smelt and refine iron ore from scratch? Research suggests that iron was independently bloomed & smelted in sub-Saharan Africa from iron-rich sand. The techniques apparently did not arrive via cultural diffusion as had been previously believed.

Best,
Ed

[David]

Originally Posted by Edster

David,

Well said. It would be interesting to learn how they got their raw material. Did they smelt and refine iron ore from scratch? Research suggests that iron was independently bloomed & smelted in sub-Saharan Africa from iron-rich sand. The techniques apparently did not arrive via cultural diffusion as had been previously believed.

Best,
Ed

I believe in most cases their iron source was from European sources, either as found scrap from ship wrecks and other abandoned resources or gotten in trade. Certainly some of their blades were re-dressed trade blades, but their are quite a god number that they obviously forged themselves.
Here is a link to a dagger in the Met that they date to 1780 which they say could have been either trade iron or from meteorite. I don't think iron/nickel meteorite requires smelting to forge it, though i could be wrong. I have yet to find any definitive information on who the Tlingit learned their forging skills from.
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/717584
And the first article i posted above has this to say about material sources:
"The earliest record of steel blades on the coast comes from the Ozette archaeological site on the Washington coast, where 37 steel-bladed tools and but one beaver-tooth knife were found, indicating the ubiquitousness of the material. Prior to the advent of Euro-American trade, iron and steel would have arrived either via Native trade north from California and Mexico, or in the form of ship’s fittings in Asian wrecks that came ashore on the Pacific coast. Some such shipwrecks arrived as weather-beaten fragments of Chinese or Japanese vessels, while others arrived essentially intact, though dismasted and without their steering rudders, blown out to sea by typhoons along the Japanese coast and carried east by the prevailing currents. In some cases even some crew members survived, to be taken in by the resident populations*. In addition to ship’s fittings, woodworking tools were usually aboard these vessels for maintenance and minor repairs, and were also carried on some sailings as cargo. All of these materials and tools would have had a great impact on Native society and technology."

[David]

This is another Tlingit blade said to have been made from meteorite. I cannot confirm this, but i have read that folks believe they were making these meteorite blades even before European contact. But it is very possible they had contact from the Asian side that introduced these arts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS3b4kEnN20

[Jim McDougall]

David, thank you for posting this, which is really fascinating stuff toward the presence of metal edged weapons in the Northwest Indian culture which also includes the 'eskimo' tribal groups and others to the west. While not directly part of the Plains Indian subject, it is definitely pertinent as trade and influence had virtually no boundaries.

Most of what I have found pertaining to the metal used by these Northwest peoples from Tlingit to the broader Athapaskan groups as noted probably arrived on ship from either wrecks, or often trade vessels. By the late 18th century, the Europeans were aware of their having metal weapons, but as far as known all metalwork was 'cold worked'. Most smaller tools and knives were made from individual sections or pieces of metal termed 'toes', which were eagerly sought in trade.
The meteoric weapons which were apparently from an uncertain number of sources of meteoric iron, were cold worked by shaping and hammering with rocks it seems. The use of meteoric iron was well known among the Inuit and other aboriginal peoples.

I have not yet ever found a resource that mentions the smelting of iron or forging of blades among these peoples, nor of course with any of the American Plains Indians. The only forging of iron I have found was with the Koryak (perhaps via Evenk) far to the west across Bering Strait (with probable Chinese or Japanese influence, W. Fitzhugh, "Crossroads of Continents", p.231).

With the large size and broad shape of these Tlingit knife/swords it is tempting to associate them with the canoe paddles, which though of course wood, were similar in shape and used as weapons.

[mahratt]

glenbowmuseum: Image No: NA-1906-4 Title: Blackfoot warrior with sword. Date: [ca. 1887] Photographer/Illustrator: Ross, Alexander J., Calgary, Alberta. Subject(s)

[mahratt]

I think that in the second half of the 19th century, long saber blades were used most often as attributes of power. At the same time, in the 18th century and earlier, European long blades were undoubtedly used by the local population of America as weapons.
Detail of hide painting sent to Switzerland from Sonora, Mexico in 1758 by Philipp Segesser (1 September 1689 - 28 September 1762). Assumed to represent the 1720 defeat of the Villasur expedition. Supposedly shown in the image is José López Naranjo and Fray Juan Minguez.

[fernando]

Good reasoning, Mahratt. In a (sort of) similar situation we have the swords introduced to African natives in an early stage (XV century) and later becoming symbols of power in the xix century (Mbele a Lulendo).


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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mahratt

I think that in the second half of the 19th century, long saber blades were used most often as attributes of power. At the same time, in the 18th century and earlier, European long blades were undoubtedly used by the local population of America as weapons.
Detail of hide painting sent to Switzerland from Sonora, Mexico in 1758 by Philipp Segesser (1 September 1689 - 28 September 1762). Assumed to represent the 1720 defeat of the Villasur expedition. Supposedly shown in the image is José López Naranjo and Fray Juan Minguez.

Thank you so much for adding this of the Segesser paintings!! which were mentioned earlier as one of the earliest recorded uses of the sword by American Indian tribes. I had the great opportunity to view these in New Mexico in research in which these paintings also showed the presence of a different kind of cuera (leather jacket) than previously known in Spanish colonial culture of the period.

That picture of the Blackfoot with a M1822 British cavalry sword is outstanding! and this is probably of course a studio photo with that sword possibly being one of the CDV props, as common practice of the time. It surely adds context to the presence of these swords in these environments, and begs the question, if the individual saw the sword there and requested being photographed holding it as something known in practice in these times in his tribal setting. Here I would say however that having seen the other images from this museum and in Alberta, it does seem that it is very possible this sword belonged to the warrior, as with the other example seen in earlier post.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

By the late 18th century, the Europeans were aware of their having metal weapons, but as far as known all metalwork was 'cold worked'. Most smaller tools and knives were made from individual sections or pieces of metal termed 'toes', which were eagerly sought in trade.
The meteoric weapons which were apparently from an uncertain number of sources of meteoric iron, were cold worked by shaping and hammering with rocks it seems. The use of meteoric iron was well known among the Inuit and other aboriginal peoples.

Though it is clear that examples of cold worked meteorite do exist i believe it is equally clear that many of these Tlingit daggers that are dated to the mid and late 18th century are indeed indigenously FORGED weapons. Again, where how they developed these forging kills remains unknown, but there are daggers that were "collected" in the late 18th century by Europeans that obviously were not European forgings. By the 19th century Tlingit forging skills increased greatly, producing large and elaborately fullered daggers. So while there may not be much evidence of indigenous smelting i believe there is plenty of evidence of indigenous forging.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Though it is clear that examples of cold worked meteorite do exist i believe it is equally clear that many of these Tlingit daggers that are dated to the mid and late 18th century are indeed indigenously FORGED weapons. Again, where how they developed these forging kills remains unknown, but there are daggers that were "collected" in the late 18th century by Europeans that obviously were not European forgings. By the 19th century Tlingit forging skills increased greatly, producing large and elaborately fullered daggers. So while there may not be much evidence of indigenous smelting i believe there is plenty of evidence of indigenous forging.

Thank you David.
My knowledge of metallurgy is pretty shallow, so it in interesting with this to learn more. I know that the use of meteorite iron is a well known attribute in your field of study, the keris, so I am wondering, was this meteorite metal used wholly, or alloyed with other metals in forging?
It does not seem that cold forging would achieve the kind of structure that would allow channeling/fullering etc.

I am inclined to agree with what you are saying on these Tlingit knives, the complexity of the channeling and the shapes of the blades seem to exceed any potential of fabrication with scrap or trade item repurposing. It does not seem that 'cold work' would accomplish this level of detail.

While as you say there is no evidence of smelting in these regions, after more reading on the indiginous peoples across the Bering did seem to have forging skills as noted from Japanese and Chinese influences. With the amount of trade and contact throughout these tribal groups it would be entirely reasonable for them to have at least some degree of absorbing of these skills and from cold working to actual forging is not that great a leap.

The question then would be from where was the iron obtained, and I wonder if there might have been some degree of trade ingots brought in.
The structure of these Tlingit knives is remarkable, and it would be great to examine them more thoroughly.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Though it is clear that examples of cold worked meteorite do exist i believe it is equally clear that many of these Tlingit daggers that are dated to the mid and late 18th century are indeed indigenously FORGED weapons. Again, where how they developed these forging kills remains unknown, but there are daggers that were "collected" in the late 18th century by Europeans that obviously were not European forgings. By the 19th century Tlingit forging skills increased greatly, producing large and elaborately fullered daggers. So while there may not be much evidence of indigenous smelting i believe there is plenty of evidence of indigenous forging.

Thank you Fernando......not really a digression but key perspective by analogy of how native peoples often would adopt outside influences into their own culture, and often revere them as seen here.
It seems well known that the African tribal groups typically had varying levels of metal working skills, but West Africa seems to have used more of the sift, yellow metals. However there were certainly smiths fully capable of working iron, and interesting to see how they carefully duplicated these Portuguese swords and were seen as holding resounding power.

The swordsmanship of the Portuguese explorers was probably seen as their ability to harness the power and magic of the sword. This is a common perception with native peoples as weapons foreign to them were seen in the sense of magic, much as imbued in their own weapons. In the cases of swords I think this was recognized as a formidable force, and only the most powerful in a native tribe could hold such a weapon. In these cases I think that these were a kind of 'bearing' weapon as often seen in tribal cultures in Africa in rituals, and various ceremonies or events.

With the American Indian tribes, it was a dual reaction. While the 'long knives' were seen representing the power of the warrior in cases of weapons captured from the Blue Coats, they were often seen as imbued with similar kinds of power as used by chiefs. In these instances the sword held a kind of metaphysical power that symbolized that of the chief. This was for example as in the case of a visitor to the tribe who was to be protected, the chiefs sword was placed near the entrance, in effect....a warning, anyone who tries to breach this sanctity will face the wrath of the chief (as his sword declares)..

[fernando]

Drawings of remnants of personalities buried in tombs #4, #5 and #12 with their swords, in Kindoki, Mbanza Nsundi, Low Congo,
And a portrait of Mfutila, King of the Congo Kingdom, who succeeded his father in 1892.


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[werecow]

Originally Posted by David

This is another Tlingit blade said to have been made from meteorite. I cannot confirm this, but i have read that folks believe they were making these meteorite blades even before European contact. But it is very possible they had contact from the Asian side that introduced these arts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS3b4kEnN20

These are very interesting looking. It reminds me of Tebu swords and daggers, with that stabby pommel.

[Tim Simmons]

Bronze find Alaska.

https://www.colorado.edu/today/2011/...chaeology-site

The problem for archaeological research is why and where to dig, if you do not believe it is there.

[Jim McDougall]

Having artifacts and items from remarkably distant and seemingly disconnected cultures and regions is far from uncommon, though typically unusual.
I recall a sword from an Indian tribe in Vancouver that belonged apparently to a 'turtle clan' (the accounts called them 'turtle people'), but was clearly a Sinhalese kastane, a sword from Sri Lanka.

It was unclear how this came into these regions, but if I recall correctly in the ledgers of a Hudsons Bay Co. official, in the inventory of goods traded, there were three 'dragon' swords. This might apply to the zoomorphic head on the pommels of these which were supposed to be lions but in the elaborate design could be taken for dragon heads.

Among American Indian tribes there are items which were apparently from trade that came from far to the south including Inca, Mayan and of course Aztec, and items from the east from 'Mound People' and other tribes. There were shells and items from tribes to the west as well.