Ottoman/Albanian Khanjar scabbard markings

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by DavidFriedman

Yes, I do also find it odd that this could be attributed to being Albanian, when all the markings show Turkish provenance. At least to my limited level of knowledge on these types of bladed weapons.

Here are two pics of the blade.

I have two, similar with yours.

They both have wootz blades. This is enough to completely invalidate its "Albanian" attribution as wootz was not produced in Europe at that time (with the exception of some Turkish smiths).

It is quite likely that yours is wootz too so you may want to clean and check the blade for wootz.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I have two, similar with yours.

They both have wootz blades. This is enough to completely invalidate its "Albanian" attribution as wootz was not produced in Europe at that time (with the exception of some Turkish smiths).

It is quite likely that yours is wootz too so you may want to clean and check the blade for wootz.

I was looking at the medial ridge and koftgari thinking the same thing. I can't see the finer motifs and/or inscriptions. Odd thing I did notice that I will have to look at other examples and see if it is a common occurrence is that if you look at the two halves of the koftgari as a whole it looks like the vessel motif.

[kronckew]

I still think it's Kurdish. Kurds occupy a rather large part of eastern Türkiye, as well as in Iran/Iraq.


My Ottoman Kurdish jambiya/khanjar, it's wootz, by the way:

Yours is just a bigger fancier version.

[Turkoman.khan]

Originally Posted by kronckew

I still think it's Kurdish. Kurds occupy a rather large part of eastern Türkiye, as well as in Iran/Iraq.


My Ottoman Kurdish jambiya/khanjar, it's wootz, by the way:

Yours is just a bigger fancier version.

My friend, you are wrong. Of course, Kurdish and Ottoman khanjars are somewhat similar. But this is a very distant "kinship". I had several richly decorated Kurdish daggers. They are decorated in a completely different style.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by kronckew

I still think it's Kurdish. Kurds occupy a rather large part of eastern Türkiye, as well as in Iran/Iraq.


My Ottoman Kurdish jambiya/khanjar, it's wootz, by the way:

Yours is just a bigger fancier version.

Of course there are similarities between your Kurdish dagger and the one above!

But even more similarities are between your Kurdish dagger and a classic Persian khanjar. Yet your dagger is Kurdish, not Persian because of the very few, but distinctive differences.

The same goes with this dagger. It is Turkish, not Albanian, nor Kurdish, because of the few but very typically Turkish differences... without mentioning the presence of the Turgha punch mark that would be inconceivable on a Kurdish dagger.

And I believe the Turgha punch mark proves this dagger was made by a smith associated with the Ottoman imperial court, as to my knowledge, only few smiths were granted the right to use the Turgha stamp, namely those closely associated with the imperial court. That's why I also believe the place of manufacture of this dagger was in Istanbul area.

[JBG163]

A german auction house once sold one similar described as such. I link the description to this discussion, without being agree with the Albanian assessment.
" A silver-mounted Ottoman khanjar, 19th century.
Curved, double-edged blade with a central ridge on both sides (rust spots in places). Silver mounted handle with engraved decoration, partially repaired crack in the middle. Wooden scabbard is made of partly engraved silver plate decorated with pearl bands (small dents) with silver inlays and engraved inscription. Length 45.2 cm.
Coming from the estate of Lieutenant General of the Yugoslav People's Army Vaso Jovanović (1915 - 2013). According to tradition, it is a looted weapon that used to belong to an Albanian leader."
That is the only reference that would make it Albanian and..... it is quite thin.

As said above, it is Ottoman, potentially Turkey or neighbouring country. That kind of silver work can be seen on khanjar from other form found in nowadays Iraq and sometimes Iran