Sioux Club + age?

Jeff D · 18th November 2012, 11:28 PM

Hi Tim,

I really have nothing more to add to Jim's excellent observations, but maybe the small information I have may be useful to you. I think the only way to date your club is by the beads. The colour and type can sometimes be dated (not by by me). I will include a picture of 3 clubs in the Glenbow museum in Calgary, they most likely are Souix or Blackfoot. I also will include a club head that I have from my Grandfather's farm in Saskatchewan it most likely is Cree.

All the best
Jeff

Tim Simmons · 22nd November 2012, 10:13 AM

It is here and I think the gamble has paid off handsomely. The object is exquisitly made. It is part of dress or regalia, a status bauble. I have taken a few moody darker pictures as we all expect old things to be dark and not fresh and looking well kept. I also think it stands its ground against all the previous posted pictures and when seen next to these late 19th early 20th century African objects?

Iain · 22nd November 2012, 01:46 PM

Very nice Tim! A great idea to shoot some photos against similar cross cultural objects - Native American items are somewhat under represented here and it is intriguing to see the differences and similarities against more familiar African clubs.

Tim Simmons · 28th May 2013, 05:40 PM

Surfing and found this sale which I thought was interesting and worth adding here. I think I might have done rather well?

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/l...D=4305175&sid=

Jim McDougall · 28th May 2013, 07:01 PM

This one was actually pretty exciting research and kept me busy for a few days!!

I hadnt noticed that Jeff had acknowledged my 'soliloquys' ...thank you so much Jeff.

fearn · 29th May 2013, 02:30 AM

Given that Cherry Creek is an unincorporated community in District 3 of the Cheyenne River Indian Reservation in South Dakota, I suspect it's a reservation period piece as Jim and others noted, assuming it's all genuine.

Here's a piece about Cherry Creek, in case anyone is interested. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/....sotu.economy/

Best,

F

Jim McDougall · 29th May 2013, 05:29 PM

I agree with what Jeff said, the beads are often key in classifying these items. I dont know the particulars, but those who specialize in these fields of course could. As with all ethnographic items original components are often refurbished so this must be considered as well.

In rereading what I had written earlier, and reading the link that Fearn posted, it is hard to describe the sadness in the plight of many of these magnificent tribal peoples, and to remember the proud place they well deserve to hold in our countrys heritage.

Clearly the value of these artifacts far exceeds monetary, much as with most historical items, and Im always glad to see them placed in the custody of those who truly appreciate them.

18th November 2012, 11:28 PM	#1
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Tim, I really have nothing more to add to Jim's excellent observations, but maybe the small information I have may be useful to you. I think the only way to date your club is by the beads. The colour and type can sometimes be dated (not by by me). I will include a picture of 3 clubs in the Glenbow museum in Calgary, they most likely are Souix or Blackfoot. I also will include a club head that I have from my Grandfather's farm in Saskatchewan it most likely is Cree. All the best Jeff Attached Images

22nd November 2012, 10:13 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,745	It is here and I think the gamble has paid off handsomely. The object is exquisitly made. It is part of dress or regalia, a status bauble. I have taken a few moody darker pictures as we all expect old things to be dark and not fresh and looking well kept. I also think it stands its ground against all the previous posted pictures and when seen next to these late 19th early 20th century African objects? Attached Images

22nd November 2012, 01:46 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,682	Very nice Tim! A great idea to shoot some photos against similar cross cultural objects - Native American items are somewhat under represented here and it is intriguing to see the differences and similarities against more familiar African clubs.

28th May 2013, 05:40 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,745	Surfing and found this sale which I thought was interesting and worth adding here. I think I might have done rather well? http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/l...D=4305175&sid=

28th May 2013, 07:01 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,800	This one was actually pretty exciting research and kept me busy for a few days!! I hadnt noticed that Jeff had acknowledged my 'soliloquys' ...thank you so much Jeff.

29th May 2013, 02:30 AM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Given that Cherry Creek is an unincorporated community in District 3 of the Cheyenne River Indian Reservation in South Dakota, I suspect it's a reservation period piece as Jim and others noted, assuming it's all genuine. Here's a piece about Cherry Creek, in case anyone is interested. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/....sotu.economy/ Best, F

29th May 2013, 05:29 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,800	I agree with what Jeff said, the beads are often key in classifying these items. I dont know the particulars, but those who specialize in these fields of course could. As with all ethnographic items original components are often refurbished so this must be considered as well. In rereading what I had written earlier, and reading the link that Fearn posted, it is hard to describe the sadness in the plight of many of these magnificent tribal peoples, and to remember the proud place they well deserve to hold in our countrys heritage. Clearly the value of these artifacts far exceeds monetary, much as with most historical items, and Im always glad to see them placed in the custody of those who truly appreciate them.