New forged keris for review

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by David

For me the "kinatah" seems to solve part of the problem i was having with the way the pamor cut so abruptly into the Singo.
There are still executions problems from my perspective with the greneng form as well as the gonjo itself which seems to lack the gracefulness i expect to see in gonjo wilut.
I also agree with Alan that the perspective with which the original photos of this keris were shot was problematic and the overall dhapur does indeed look better in the later photos.

The craftsman who does it probably is a young lad lacks of experience :P

[jagabuwana]

Something about this comparison is reminding me of discussions in art and music regarding what the essence of the art really is, and what makes something pleasing or beautiful. Granted the keris isn't visual art as its commonly understood in the West but I think it's still apt.

In music something can be overplayed. A very good musician might come in hard and fast with something very technically complex to show her skill but the lack of restraint is perceived as tasteless or not complementary to the song as a whole.

This is similar to how we are seeing a lot of extremely talented artists who are able to paint scenes or objects that are photorealistic. The skill and execution is undeniable and awesome - but is it art? Is it beautiful? Imagine a respectable institution running a gallery of photorealistic paintings, where from a distance you thought you were just looking at high-res iPhone photography. To me that doesn't inspire much beauty or feeling.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

Something about this comparison is reminding me of discussions in art and music regarding what the essence of the art really is, and what makes something pleasing or beautiful. Granted the keris isn't visual art as its commonly understood in the West but I think it's still apt.

In music something can be overplayed. A very good musician might come in hard and fast with something very technically complex to show her skill but the lack of restraint is perceived as tasteless or not complementary to the song as a whole.

This is similar to how we are seeing a lot of extremely talented artists who are able to paint scenes or objects that are photorealistic. The skill and execution is undeniable and awesome - but is it art? Is it beautiful? Imagine a respectable institution running a gallery of photorealistic paintings, where from a distance you thought you were just looking at high-res iPhone photography. To me that doesn't inspire much beauty or feeling.

Hi

Pardon me as I am not a native English speaker. I got problem trying to understand your comments. Could you kindly tell me the meaning in a simple way?

Many thanks.

[jagabuwana]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

Hi

Pardon me as I am not a native English speaker. I got problem trying to understand your comments. Could you kindly tell me the meaning in a simple way?

Many thanks.

Sure thing Anthony.

What I said was that this discussion reminds me of a similar discussion in art and music. Imagine music where a very good musician plays really fast to show off, but it can feel like too much. Similarly, some artists can paint things so realistic that they look like photos of the real thing. It's very impressive, but is it really art? Sometimes, things that look too real don't feel as special.

Originally Posted by Rick

I wonder, Jaga if AI is going to make photo-realistic art a thing of the past and no longer relevant in art circles.

I don't think so, Rick. There is something awesome about a person being able to paint or draw photorealistically, but when it comes to aesthetics I don't consider it to be something that evokes beauty.

[Anthony G.]

[QUOTE=jagabuwana;284244]Sure thing Anthony.

What I said was that this discussion reminds me of a similar discussion in art and music. Imagine music where a very good musician plays really fast to show off, but it can feel like too much. Similarly, some artists can paint things so realistic that they look like photos of the real thing. It's very impressive, but is it really art? Sometimes, things that look too real don't feel as special.

I got it, thanks for the clarifications.

[SidJ]

No one here seems to be the least bit annoyed or bothered by this blatant copying of a unique piece? Was the consent of the owner sought? It's distasteful to do this in my view.

[Rick]

I've seen this woven pamor some time ago in our pages; if the dhapur is within a recognised pakem I can't really see any reason to be offended by the form.
I am not aware of any design copyright being claimed by whoever developed this particular pamor.

Why should I be offended.

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by SidJ

No one here seems to be the least bit annoyed or bothered by this blatant copying of a unique piece? Was the consent of the owner sought? It's distasteful to do this in my view.

If you don't wan't your Keris to be copyied, don't post the pictures of it on internet.

Jokes aside, copying was and is the most important part of learning process and creativity probably in every traditional culture, explicitly so in Eastern and Southeastern Asian cultures. I for myself am more annoyed and bothered about the ideal of Art schools in the Western world - everybody must be an artist with an unique language after his study at the age of let's say 25. This idea appears everywhere in Western world where creativity is concerned and not only there, and still determines some of the most fundamental differences between Eastern and Western peoples characters.

Regarding this special Keris and the original one, a part of the problem here could be that the smith was working with a couple of pictures, he never had the original in his hand. Not all people are equally talented to translate two-dimensional objects back to three -dimensional. The other thing is of course if somebody is able to understand what exactly makes out the harmony of a good blade, and not to destroy these things. Here maker's approach was too individualistic, his own character was the barrier not allowing him to make a harmonious blade. Rougly at the same time there has been made another copy of this particular Keris, by another maker, who followed the original much closer, and did have a better understanding of why exactly the old blade does work.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

This is similar to how we are seeing a lot of extremely talented artists who are able to paint scenes or objects that are photorealistic. The skill and execution is undeniable and awesome - but is it art? Is it beautiful? Imagine a respectable institution running a gallery of photorealistic paintings, where from a distance you thought you were just looking at high-res iPhone photography. To me that doesn't inspire much beauty or feeling.

I wonder, Jaga if AI is going to make photo-realistic art a thing of the past and no longer relevant in art circles.

[milandro]

due to the many TV shows on blades' forging, the popularity of this skill is increasing wildly and the showmanship too.


Some people are artists but some are showing off something they learned and are able to produce.

The exchange of information is now incredible and people can attend courses and learn techniques in many countries in the world.


In the end one has to value things on their own merit each and every time.

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

I wonder, Jaga if AI is going to make photo-realistic art a thing of the past and no longer relevant in art circles.

Well, photography didn't bring an end to painting in a realistic manner, so i doubt AI will.

[Rick]

I suppose the Horse left the barn in the 1600's when the camera obscura was invented.