Ngadal Meteng?

jagabuwana · 6th April 2023, 01:32 AM

Our most senior and knowledgeable members here will tell you that they encounter terms that were not used or known to their teachers and other keris-literate people (the most literate, even) in their time of learning. The fact that some sellers use it nowadays might not mean much at all.

Anyway, we've established that ngadal meteng refers to a particular blade cross-sectional shape, one that is similar to closed curly brackets {}. It was not that difficult for me to find this on Google.

I doubt that it has an originally intended meaning or significance behind it. Given that we are talking about the keris I'm sure someone has come up with a meaning for it. And if enough people believe in that meaning then it is true. Retroactive continuity. I haven't encountered any of these meanings myself.

JustYS · 6th April 2023, 01:33 PM

Thank you David for the link and also clarifying that it refers to cross section.

I did not know that there are so many different cross sections.

Regarding the intended meaning and significance behind it, I’m not sure jagabuwana, but if you click the link from David you’ll see that the terms is used in Serat Centhini although using different words: ngadhal busung.

A. G. Maisey · 6th April 2023, 01:46 PM

I noted your invitation David. Thank you.

I did not previously comment, largely for two reasons, firstly I cannot recall having heard the term used in reference to a weapon blade, and secondly because it is listed in alpha order in EK.

Briefly, the EK entry just says that if the face of a blade of a keris or tombak is domed & looks like the back of a pregnant lizard (a small lizard, grass lizard, "kadal") then it is referred to as "ngadal meteng".

This can also be spelt as "ngadhal meteng".

As above, I did not know it as a keris or tombak term, however, I did and do know the word "ngadhalmeteng" (ie, one word, not two) in general usage as referring to something/anything as being big/swollen in the middle. My understanding is that this is Javanese but also occurs in BI.

It is not the name of a dhapur, & if used it should only be used as a descriptor of the blade face, not the full blade.

The term can be found in EK, published 2004, and also in the forerunner of EK, "Ensiklopedi Budaya Nasional" published in 1988.

In respect of just how popular or otherwise this particular discussion group might or might not be, well, I have no idea at all.

Over a number of years I have had a real good, close look at a couple of FB keris sites, & yes, they do have enormous numbers of contributors, but personally I find the content of the overwhelming number of comments made in these FB groups to be lacking in substance, and from my own perspective, incredibly difficult to work with & to understand, the understanding thing is not at all related to use of BI or Javanese by some people, rather it is caused by some of the less than clear & rational things that are sometimes written.

I guess it comes down to what any particular person might wish to either contribute to, or gain from the content of any online discussion group in this particular field, and perhaps raw numbers of browsing people is not in any way indicative of the mindset of those who browse.

A. G. Maisey · 6th April 2023, 01:56 PM

The word "busung" is correctly only used for animals that are pregnant, when it is used to refer to a pregnant person, it is very crude, insulting usage.

However, the word can also mean bloating or swelling, and when this sense is intended, it can be used to refer to a person.

"Meteng", on the other hand is ngoko and is correctly used in this Javanese language level to refer to a pregnant person.

There are other words to refer to a pregnant person, both in Javanese & in BI.

6th April 2023, 01:33 PM	#2
JustYS Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 128	Thank you David for the link and also clarifying that it refers to cross section. I did not know that there are so many different cross sections. Regarding the intended meaning and significance behind it, I’m not sure jagabuwana, but if you click the link from David you’ll see that the terms is used in Serat Centhini although using different words: ngadhal busung. Attached Images

6th April 2023, 01:46 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,737	I noted your invitation David. Thank you. I did not previously comment, largely for two reasons, firstly I cannot recall having heard the term used in reference to a weapon blade, and secondly because it is listed in alpha order in EK. Briefly, the EK entry just says that if the face of a blade of a keris or tombak is domed & looks like the back of a pregnant lizard (a small lizard, grass lizard, "kadal") then it is referred to as "ngadal meteng". This can also be spelt as "ngadhal meteng". As above, I did not know it as a keris or tombak term, however, I did and do know the word "ngadhalmeteng" (ie, one word, not two) in general usage as referring to something/anything as being big/swollen in the middle. My understanding is that this is Javanese but also occurs in BI. It is not the name of a dhapur, & if used it should only be used as a descriptor of the blade face, not the full blade. The term can be found in EK, published 2004, and also in the forerunner of EK, "Ensiklopedi Budaya Nasional" published in 1988. In respect of just how popular or otherwise this particular discussion group might or might not be, well, I have no idea at all. Over a number of years I have had a real good, close look at a couple of FB keris sites, & yes, they do have enormous numbers of contributors, but personally I find the content of the overwhelming number of comments made in these FB groups to be lacking in substance, and from my own perspective, incredibly difficult to work with & to understand, the understanding thing is not at all related to use of BI or Javanese by some people, rather it is caused by some of the less than clear & rational things that are sometimes written. I guess it comes down to what any particular person might wish to either contribute to, or gain from the content of any online discussion group in this particular field, and perhaps raw numbers of browsing people is not in any way indicative of the mindset of those who browse. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 6th April 2023 at 02:01 PM.

6th April 2023, 01:32 AM	#1
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 277	Our most senior and knowledgeable members here will tell you that they encounter terms that were not used or known to their teachers and other keris-literate people (the most literate, even) in their time of learning. The fact that some sellers use it nowadays might not mean much at all. Anyway, we've established that ngadal meteng refers to a particular blade cross-sectional shape, one that is similar to closed curly brackets {}. It was not that difficult for me to find this on Google. I doubt that it has an originally intended meaning or significance behind it. Given that we are talking about the keris I'm sure someone has come up with a meaning for it. And if enough people believe in that meaning then it is true. Retroactive continuity. I haven't encountered any of these meanings myself.

6th April 2023, 01:56 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,737	The word "busung" is correctly only used for animals that are pregnant, when it is used to refer to a pregnant person, it is very crude, insulting usage. However, the word can also mean bloating or swelling, and when this sense is intended, it can be used to refer to a person. "Meteng", on the other hand is ngoko and is correctly used in this Javanese language level to refer to a pregnant person. There are other words to refer to a pregnant person, both in Javanese & in BI.