Taking walrus hilted sword out of Germany

T. Koch · 6th November 2014, 07:35 PM

Hi Erlikhan - just a quick jab from me as I'm on the way out the door. I've been working for the CITES M.A. in Denmark for 7 years+.

Walrus is Appendix II/Annex B, so to take the Yataghan with you on a flight out of the EU you will need a CITES-export permit from the German M.A. - be sure however, to in your app. to emphasize that it is a personal item = purpose code "P".

If you choose to send it, go for purpose code "T" (commercial) and your contact in the US might need a corresponding CITES-import permit, but he should really ask the USF&W before you guys do the transfer.

I've found the contact info for the German M.A. for you here;

Bundesamt für Naturschutz
(Federal Agency for Nature Conservation)
Abteilung I.1
Management Authority to CITES
Konstantinstrasse 110
53179 BONN

Tel: +49 (228) 84 91 13 11
Fax: +49 (228) 84 91 13 19
Email: citesma @ bfn.de

If you have any questions, please post them - will try to answer in detail tomorrow.

One love, - Thor

T. Koch · 6th November 2014, 07:39 PM

...and I agree with Gavin in the regard that most CITES enforcers aren't too sharp at worked materials ID and in my experience 99% of customs officers couldn't tie their shoelaces without a flowchart.

Then again, very rarely you have nerd-flies - like me - and we will pounce on your ivory like flies on... well a Yataghan!

IMO, Gav said it: Why chance it.

Peace, - Thor

erlikhan · 20th November 2014, 03:20 PM

Thanks a lot. The same question for UK : What about there??

Jens Nordlunde · 20th November 2014, 06:11 PM

Most of it depends on the country you want to export from/import to, and the country where the plane has to land on the way to you. I have a feeling that the last may be a problem, although most would not regard this as a problem.
I would play it safe and try to get a CITE certificate. Should you loose the yathagan on the way, you would not be a happy man.
Jens

erlikhan · 20th November 2014, 06:17 PM

Hi Jens. it will take off from London and land in Istanbul, direct flight. The item will look obviously old not letting any suspicion agewise. To take certificate costs 3 weeks extra hotel stay and 70 gbp fee.

spiral · 20th November 2014, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlikhan

Hi Jens. it will take off from London and land in Istanbul, direct flight. The item will look obviously old not letting any suspicion agewise. To take certificate costs 3 weeks extra hotel stay and 70 gbp fee.

If customs did notice it at Heathrow, they would know it was ivory.

How old it is or appears will be immaterial to them without certification. You would lose it.

But they might not notice it. There very busy.

I would arrange certification.

spiral

VANDOO · 21st November 2014, 01:15 AM

WELL THIS POST HAS DECIDED ME ON WHAT TO DO WITH ALL MY OLD PRE CITES IVORY ITEMS BE THEY CARVINGS OR SWORDS I WILL HAVE THEM CREMATED WITH ME. I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO SELL THEM TO OTHER COLLECTORS SO THEY WOULD BE ENJOYED A FEW HUNDRED YEARS MORE BUT THAT WOULD BE CRIMINAL UNDER THESE LAWS. UNFORTUNATELY DESTRUCTION OF SUCH ITEMS IS THE ONLY LEGAL COURSE OR DONATING THEM TO THE ONES WHO MADE UP THE BAD LAWS IN THE FIRST PLACE SO THEY CAN DISPLAY THE EVIL THINGS OR DESTROY THEM. IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE FROM HERE AS SUCH GOVERNMENTS LIVE TO CONFISCATE, FINE AND IMPRISON THE INNOCENT AS WELL AS THE GUILTY WITH NO LOGIC OR SENSE OF RIGHT OR WRONG.

FORTUNATELY MOST OF MY COLLECTION IS LOW END SO NOT MUCH WILL BE LOST DUE TO IVORY LAWS. BUT WAIT IN FUTURE WOOD COULD BE BANNED TO SAVE THE TREES THAT ARE LONG DEAD AS WELL.

6th November 2014, 07:35 PM	#1
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Hi Erlikhan - just a quick jab from me as I'm on the way out the door. I've been working for the CITES M.A. in Denmark for 7 years+. Walrus is Appendix II/Annex B, so to take the Yataghan with you on a flight out of the EU you will need a CITES-export permit from the German M.A. - be sure however, to in your app. to emphasize that it is a personal item = purpose code "P". If you choose to send it, go for purpose code "T" (commercial) and your contact in the US might need a corresponding CITES-import permit, but he should really ask the USF&W before you guys do the transfer. I've found the contact info for the German M.A. for you here; Bundesamt für Naturschutz (Federal Agency for Nature Conservation) Abteilung I.1 Management Authority to CITES Konstantinstrasse 110 53179 BONN Tel: +49 (228) 84 91 13 11 Fax: +49 (228) 84 91 13 19 Email: citesma @ bfn.de If you have any questions, please post them - will try to answer in detail tomorrow. One love, - Thor

6th November 2014, 07:39 PM	#2
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	...and I agree with Gavin in the regard that most CITES enforcers aren't too sharp at worked materials ID and in my experience 99% of customs officers couldn't tie their shoelaces without a flowchart. Then again, very rarely you have nerd-flies - like me - and we will pounce on your ivory like flies on... well a Yataghan! IMO, Gav said it: Why chance it. Peace, - Thor

20th November 2014, 03:20 PM	#3
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Thanks a lot. The same question for UK : What about there??

20th November 2014, 06:11 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Most of it depends on the country you want to export from/import to, and the country where the plane has to land on the way to you. I have a feeling that the last may be a problem, although most would not regard this as a problem. I would play it safe and try to get a CITE certificate. Should you loose the yathagan on the way, you would not be a happy man. Jens

20th November 2014, 06:17 PM	#5
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Hi Jens. it will take off from London and land in Istanbul, direct flight. The item will look obviously old not letting any suspicion agewise. To take certificate costs 3 weeks extra hotel stay and 70 gbp fee.

21st November 2014, 01:15 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WELL THIS POST HAS DECIDED ME ON WHAT TO DO WITH ALL MY OLD PRE CITES IVORY ITEMS BE THEY CARVINGS OR SWORDS I WILL HAVE THEM CREMATED WITH ME. I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO SELL THEM TO OTHER COLLECTORS SO THEY WOULD BE ENJOYED A FEW HUNDRED YEARS MORE BUT THAT WOULD BE CRIMINAL UNDER THESE LAWS. UNFORTUNATELY DESTRUCTION OF SUCH ITEMS IS THE ONLY LEGAL COURSE OR DONATING THEM TO THE ONES WHO MADE UP THE BAD LAWS IN THE FIRST PLACE SO THEY CAN DISPLAY THE EVIL THINGS OR DESTROY THEM. IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE FROM HERE AS SUCH GOVERNMENTS LIVE TO CONFISCATE, FINE AND IMPRISON THE INNOCENT AS WELL AS THE GUILTY WITH NO LOGIC OR SENSE OF RIGHT OR WRONG. FORTUNATELY MOST OF MY COLLECTION IS LOW END SO NOT MUCH WILL BE LOST DUE TO IVORY LAWS. BUT WAIT IN FUTURE WOOD COULD BE BANNED TO SAVE THE TREES THAT ARE LONG DEAD AS WELL.